In there I hope to establish a board, on which we can agree on all neccessary measures that needs to be taken into account when creating Exonumia.
Current development and future development:
1. **Exonumia** already exist in the system, but is currently non-visible, so it is not shown in the country list (that is because there are no coin/token sheets in it currently).
2. If I moved some coin in it, it would showed up in the first place (instead of the last) and also would count in the country count. Both these things can be done only by Xavier.
3. However, none of those things is not an obstacle to actual start. And speaking of which, I wrote a message to Xavier 15. 4. about this. I understand that he is busy (no response on message from 8 . 4. either.), so I decided to wait a little with start.
4. In the meantime, we should use the time to sollidly establish naming and sorting issues as well as what is/will be marked as (To delete).
5. If we get no answer in time (see timetable), we will move to Proof of concept phase. I believe we can all agree on moving Fantasy Euro Tokens to **Exonumia**, they are easy to spot, there are a lot of them, have a clear structure (thanks to Pajaskot) and there are no problems with them. (Besides that in this movement, we will exclude ECU coins and pre-1999 Euros, which will have their own category) Seting up this will give us proof of concept that we can present to Xavier - so we and he will see how this will look in the end.
6. If we will get no answer in considerable (and negotiable time), we will aim higher, and present Fait accompli - meaning we will do it all and will present it as done thing.
7. As I seen no structural criticism, only for minnor issues, and part of the team ignores it, while others supported my move, or do not care, I will move forward with this.
Timeline:
Wait until Thor's day of the next week. Eg. 21. - 22. 4. for Xavier's answer.
If no answer by then, we will move to the next phase and create Proof of concept.
If no answer on Proof of concept (for how long?) We will create Fait accompli.
Until then, we might establish a list of categories that will be moved/that will be created.
Proof of concept:
My idea of naming the sections was:
Fantasy circulation Euros - Andorra
Fantasy circulation Euros - Poland
Fantasy circulation Euros - Slovakia
Fantasy circulation Euros - Turkey
The word circulation gives us some room to name the other sections with ECU and pre-1999 Euros.
If anybody has a better idea how to make these two sections different, I am all ears.
Just reminder, for now please do not modify sheets yet. I know you are eager to do it, but it cannot be done in a day, we are talking about moving thousands of coin sheets and modifying even more...
We have to set up some rules and a plan first, then we can move on.
Quote: "Jarcek"Until then, we might establish a list of categories that will be moved/that will be created.
Right, so as I understand it, the tokens section will solely be for tokens that can or could be used to purchase goods and services, I. e. car wash tokens, milk tokens, bread tokens, merchant tokens, telephone tokens, transport tokens, tax tokens, etc.
Exonumia will be everything else.
Some categories are for items to delete. From the team forum and Xavier's wishes these are:
* to delete - Play tokens
* to delete - Religious medallions
* to delete - Contemporary fakes
* to delete - Modern fakes
* to delete - Arcade tokens
* to delete - Medallions
* to delete - Military orders
* to delete - Pressed pennies
* to delete - Commercial tokens and gifts ( I assume this is the tourist tokens)
I would also like to suggest:
*to delete - unidentified/unidentifiable tokens (ones that have not enough information/no picture)
Others are to be put in pending decision on whether or not to keep them. They will be organised by type first and then by country and include (but not limited to)
That's all I can think of for now, feel free to add to the list...remember, the quicker we can decide on the categories and get them set up, the faster we can start getting things tidied up.
I don't know exactly what Fiorino deleted, but there is a confusion as to what is a medal/medallion/medallet etc. I think it depends on what language you speak, but I'm guessing the original suggestion was to delete only medals that are worn on your person, right?
In Swedish, "medalj" is often used for any round that is not a coin or token, be it bullion, souvenir tokens, Olympic gold medals or the Nobel Prize medal.
Anyway please do not forget if a coin file has an owner, only Xavier can delete it.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
No, nothing is being deleted yet, these are just the sections that are to be set up that things are sorted into.
If we set them up, sort everything into that section that belongs there, then decide later that we want to keep it, then it's easy to rename the section, but if everything is sorted into the sections, it is decided that we do want to delete them, then they are all in one place and easy to find.
Quote: "Jarcek"Firstly, we are not deleting anything for now. .....
Good!
instead of *to delete - ....* we should name the categories *probably to delete - ...* or just *exonumia - xyz* (or something not sounding so final).
For example the discussion weather the "tourist tokens" have to be deleted or not is not finished as far as i understood.
If the tokens have been sorted, we can make this decision.
First we have to clean all up, than we can throw away the rubbish.
If we name the categories *to delete - ...* we won't give much attention to the items of this categories.
If we show they have a chance to stay, people will invest more time in them and the result will be nicer.
This is my opinion.
Quote: "Handzumgrus"If we name the categories *to delete - ...* we won't give much attention to the items of this categories.
If we show they have a chance to stay, people will invest more time in them and the result will be nicer.
This is my opinion.
THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT!
We don't want more of them coming in. If the team or Xavier decided a year ago that they don't want these in the catalogue, the we don't want to bring in any more until it's decided whether they stay or go. The whole reason I initiated this discussion was the tokens section was getting too big because everyone was throwing everything into the catalogue.
I wish to outline the current status and how this will progress here and I will update the first post also, so it can be seen there as well.
1. **Exonumia** already exist in the system, but is currently non-visible, so it is not shown in the country list (that is because there are no coin/token sheets in it currently).
2. If I moved some coin in it, it would showed up in the first place (instead of the last) and also would count in the country count. Both these things can be done only by Xavier.
3. However, none of those things is not an obstacle to actual start. And speaking of which, I wrote a message to Xavier 15. 4. about this. I understand that he is busy (no response on message from 8 . 4. either.), so I decided to wait a little with start.
4. In the meantime, we should use the time to sollidly establish naming and sorting issues as well as what is/will be marked as (To delete).
5. If we get no answer in time (see timetable), we will move to Proof of concept phase. I believe we can all agree on moving Fantasy Euro Tokens to **Exonumia**, they are easy to spot, there are a lot of them, have a clear structure (thanks to Pajaskot) and there are no problems with them. (Besides that in this movement, we will exclude ECU coins and pre-1999 Euros, which will have their own category) Seting up this will give us proof of concept that we can present to Xavier - so we and he will see how this will look in the end.
6. If we will get no answer in considerable (and negotiable time), we will aim higher, and present Fait accompli - meaning we will do it all and will present it as done thing.
7. As I seen no structural criticism, only for minnor issues, and part of the team ignores it, while others supported my move, or do not care, I will move forward with this.
Timeline:
Wait until Thor's day of the next week. Eg. 21. - 22. 4. for Xavier's answer.
If no answer by then, we will move to the next phase and create Proof of concept.
If no answer on Proof of concept (for how long?) We will create Fait accompli.
Proof of concept:
My idea of naming the sections was:
Fantasy circulation Euros - Andorra
Fantasy circulation Euros - Poland
Fantasy circulation Euros - Slovakia
Fantasy circulation Euros - Turkey
The word circulation gives us some room to name the other sections with ECU and pre-1999 Euros.
If anybody has a better idea how to make these two sections different, I am all ears.
You can add all other fantasy coinage I guess, like (if they're listed) Abkhazian rouble, Easter Island, Cabinda... and you may find lots of fantasy euro issues from other nations.
And to conclude, do not hesitate sending him a reminder.
It's my job for now to advice the other side.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
I just picked these Fantasy euro series first, because they are already separated into categories and there are no discussions about them and where do they belong.
Other fantasy coinage issues will get another Prefix:
Fantasy issues - Poland
Fantasy issues - USA
etc...
I am not into tokens and medallions and exonumia much, but:
If anyone here follows the criminal Florino's path certainly I will rage for 3 reasons:
1) I am - like I trust nobody here is - to judge whether collecting certain numismatics related materials is good or bad. Everyone collects what they want, be it a LIDL token or a Rigsdaler.
2) Certainly noone here has the ethical right to delete the work of any other individual regardless of user priviliges, that includes criminal Florino "so-called teammember" or even Xavier himself, because whatever is there is there because the start-up criteria was unclear. (e.g. we have no banknotes, because though it is numismatic, Xavier clearly communicated related to that, so there are no banknotes, we respect that. But you cannot create rules retrospectively)
3) Actions create precedences. This was already done by the Florino criminal, and no repair has been done. There was no consequence, so we all can assume that some other idiot one day can come up with the idea that Fiji and New Zealand are not existing lands, deletes everything ... and ... lives happily ever after just because he is a priviliged teammember, and actions of him has no consequences.
This is exactly what led this issue iced everytime. Keep calm, we are only cleaning up now. I takes a lot of enthusiasm and time to keep this alive and understand both those who value everything and those who do not want another colnect.
So please do not do it harder for me.
You both will have to make concessions and you know it. Some things will stay and some (that were not only agreed on but also decided by Xavier) will have to go.
Just have a little understanding for both sides and everything will be fine.
I'm just trying to point out that we have no right to undo someone else's work is not a valid argument.
I could enter the steak that I ate last night into the catalogue, and as long as I could find another steak lover in the team willing to validate it, it goes into the catalogue. Does that mean that it belongs there?
Again I point to the comment by one member "these items may not have any numismatic value....but someone collects it"
In my opinion "tourist tokens" have a numismatic value. Other things may have a numismatic value for others but not for me.
Therefore i am very happy with the concept Jarcek explained us.
If the tourist tokens have to go after all this work we did, because the majority of the community wants it or Xavier wants it, it shall happen.
I have several more of these Monaye de Paris rounds which are not listed here. I wanted to add them because i thought i would help other collectors and improve numista. But after the tokens discussion i decided to add them not and wait what is coming. And i will keep waiting until a decision is made.
@Neill, please let this huge project its time.
Even if you are a loud voice, you are still ONE voice.
You made your point very clear.
My comment was simply a rebuttal to Imre who said he would rage if anything was deleted.
The whole idea of this project is to clean up the section and decide what stays, but yet again we have users that say that it should stay simply because someone has taken the time to put it there.
I have repeatedly said I'm fine with nothing being deleted yet and the interim step of sorting things into the appropriate sections laid down by the team members and Xavier. But I guess you all choose to ignore that and focus on my comments that eventually these sections will be sorted out and some of them deleted.
I've added a lot of tokens that are in my collection and would hate to see it be deleted especially when others have the same tokens but I agree it needs to be simplified and organized I get so confused when searching for tokens with all the different subcategories and such.
Those plastic things? No way. Collecting such cart tokens is not numismatics.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
I'm wondering what category will the Norse medals be in... I don't think they were ever used for payment (they don't even have a value on them), and they don't really go under much of the other token categories either, but they're traditionally counted (sometimes) as part of the US classic commemorative coins set.
So far, it looks like they will be in one of the "to delete" categories, to be deleted as soon as someone forgets their history.
(That "contemporary fakes" thing is also dubious, for that matter. What will we do with all the evasion halfpennies?)
Evasion coins are slightly different and have their own section in the UK country do they not? There is a difference between an illegal exact copy of a coin (contemporary fake) and a coin that was made to be different from the original so to actually be legal to produce.
There are some exceptions to the general rules, Conder tokens, New Zealand and Australian merchant tokens, Canadian merchant and bank tokens are counted in the countries because although they are tokens, they circulated as regular currency due to a shortage of general currency.
Quote: "neilithic"Evasion coins are slightly different and have their own section in the UK country do they not?
Okay, on second thought, it does make sense (they're a weird type of contemporary fakes that do not actually intend to copy the original exactly, as most other counterfeits).
Then my next question: where would jetons be? Nuremberg or otherwise.
I hope they would be kept, for searching purposes if nothing else (I've bought a few jetons that I thought were coins, and doubtlessly many others were swindled that way), but I can't figure out what category they would be, specifically.
For me, Notgeld should be in the country section because similar to Conders, they were minted to fill a shortage of general coins and circulated as currency so should be as a separate category within the relevant country.
Jetons are a tricky one, one of the uses was as gaming tokens, so perhaps placed in the gaming token section of exonumia similar to the british spade guinea gaming tokens
Quote: "neilithic"For me, Notgeld should be in the country section because similar to Conders, they were minted to fill a shortage of general coins and circulated as currency so should be as a separate category within the relevant country.
Jetons are a tricky one, one of the uses was as gaming tokens, so perhaps placed in the gaming token section of exonumia similar to the british spade guinea gaming tokens
Agreed. Much like the 1804 British dollar, it's a token, but it circulated as currency. Discussed it a bit in the subsections idea.
For me, the exonumia should be a dump for things that AREN'T actually currency.
Just a reminder: No answer so far,and that means that tommorow I will start testing of Proof of concept phase, and if everything goes smoothly, I will report here, that we are ready to move Fantasy circulation Euros. (More reminders - not ECU and pre-1999 Euros!)
I don´t really care on Tokens section, honestly, but something must be done to split into different categories, otherwise it is not possible to navigate through Tokens section.
I rely on your approach.
Everyone have their own opinions regarding tokens. Some are against, some are in favour.
Nothing against the againsters, but everyone is free to collect what they want, and as long as it fits in the website rules - why not. Of course there are a lot of exceptions and excedures, but to delete tokens that someone took time to photograph, create an entry... is not fair to those collectors.
At the end of the day, I feel that Numista is also the place for Token collectors...
If anybody sees a newly created section in Exonumia, feel free to move remainder of that section from Tokens to Exonumia.
Word "Tokens" from name of the sections "Fantasy circulation Euro Tokens" will be removed in the future, as I found the name too long. But for the sake of my and yours sanity, I will leave it as it is for now. (Until Xavier gives us rights to modify currencies or makes that change himself - worse scenario!)
If there's only going to be a couple of hundred of them, surely we can just have one category for fantasy euro tokens, rather than one for each country. If each of them are set up the way you have them with the number then the country in brackets then they should automatically be grouped by country and it's not too arduous to sort through. If we do this for each section then we're going to have a crap-load of sections to scroll through
We already have "crap load" of sections to go through in Tokens. This way similar "pieces of metal" will be grouped together.
If they would be in the same category, there would be no possible way how to sort them, as coins within categories are sortable by Face value/Date/Reference only. Only when they do not have these, they are sorted alphabetically.
And not mentioning that one section for Tourist tokens or Bullions would be VERY painfull to scroll through.
I was advertising the system long enough and accepted a long line of suggestions. It is better to have a long list of currencies rather than having long lists of coins. This way you can scroll into exactly what are you looking for - Tourist token/Bullion/Fantasy issue and they find the state you are looking for.
I've started putting in a few requests, let me know if I've done it right. If so then I can do some more tomorrow (it's getting close to bedtime here in NZ)
Fantasy euro tokens seems enough as referring to euro coinage imitations.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Once all the coins have been moved out of the tokens section, is it possible to delete that currency option so nobody tries to link to the tokens section again?
Only Xavier can do that, and I am urging him to delegate this option to Team members or even referees. Because if we have to manage the catalogue efficiently - we have to be able to modify currencies.
And I'm bored to have to ask Xavier all the time. That way would also be perfect to translate a currency between both languages.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Good job, Jarek, it certainly works, now at 108 and counting...
In a similar, I would suggest to organize the following categories:
1) Commemorative medals and medallions - Historic medals and medallions, commemorating something. They usually are on the same weight, like their legal tender counterparts, in the size of a thaler or ducat or so, here is one example: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces65575.html in 1/4 thaler size. Indeed I would put everything there, which is pre-WW2 (no science behind, just gut feeling) non-circulating exonumia.
2) Tourist medallions - Frequently collected by coin collectors, who also travel, and we have a lot of them in the tokens sections
3) Mint tokens - Certainly a numismatic item, e.g. a side-product of coin minting
... and as expressed in other posts, all German notgeld, which legal tender in a territory [not necessarily a country] shall go to the coins sections. Just like "French cities" we need a new country: "German Notgeld" which covers all notgeld reardless the issuer, i.e. not only the Funck stuff, but corporate issues as well, like this one: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces50118.html
Car wash tokens and LIDL, TESCO, Spielgeld whatever else, can remain in the token section...
I fully agree with splitting Notgelds the same way as French cities, as I defended it in an old German split topic. And I know I'm not the only one to agree with that, as derf was, like me, a hard defender of a global Notgeld come back.
I think that, for example, any World's Far and assimilated medals are included in your 1st category?
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
I aim to go slowly, to have control over the whole process. Once Fantasy Euro are finished, I thought about moving on other Fantasy issues or Bullion or Tourist tokens.
Notgeld will endure this movements in the token section, after that, we can move on that. Though I agree with you. We need to rework notgeld to keep it together.
One of the main problem is connected with Manpower - I do not know how Kenny could have done (most, I must mention also sylvied and ZacUK) most of the work (on Team requests) alone. (I know that, I have been modifing catalogue for three months, and nobody except those three was ever capable to do anything)
But even though there are more of us here now - three on the team, and several more referees (or referees taking new jobs as you or Dato) we are still strugling to handle the ammount of work needed. I would love to see some people to take up the banner and take care of some countries where only thing you need is to know English, know how Elizabeth II looks, and have Krause to his hand. (Niue, British Virgin Islands, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Antarctic Territory, Alderney, Ascension Island and so on.)
So who are currently working on this fantasy euro move? I could probably pitch in in a couple of hours, but I don't want to do the same work as someone else. If I start from the bottom (Vatican City) and work myself up the list, would that work?
Nobody for now, I am doing other work and every few minutes I look onto verifications, so chance somebody would do the same work at the same time is minimal.
Quote: "chomp-master"I think that, for example, any World's Far and assimilated medals are included in your 1st category?
I am not sure I understand the question.
But, medals and medallions before WW2 or actually somewhere to the 1970s were usually a major engraving piece of art. I have to admit even some telephone tokens, like this: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces20241.html, I find numismatically interesting, while needless to say, some recent shopping cart tokens or "Smoky Joe's car wash jeton" are less interesting, but - I have to agree with derf - it is still numismatic related stuff, and in principle, they shall have a place on a website called "Numista".
In principle, I also think that banknotes, papermoney, shares and bonds shall have a place here, but we all gave up the fight for that, I guess.
Quote: "Jarcek"I aim to go slowly, to have control over the whole process. Once Fantasy Euro are finished, I thought about moving on other Fantasy issues or Bullion or Tourist tokens.
Notgeld will endure this movements in the token section, after that, we can move on that. Though I agree with you. We need to rework notgeld to keep it together.
One of the main problem is connected with Manpower - I do not know how Kenny could have done (most, I must mention also sylvied and ZacUK) most of the work (on Team requests) alone. (I know that, I have been modifing catalogue for three months, and nobody except those three was ever capable to do anything)
But even though there are more of us here now - three on the team, and several more referees (or referees taking new jobs as you or Dato) we are still strugling to handle the ammount of work needed. I would love to see some people to take up the banner and take care of some countries where only thing you need is to know English, know how Elizabeth II looks, and have Krause to his hand. (Niue, British Virgin Islands, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Antarctic Territory, Alderney, Ascension Island and so on.)
Do not worry about manpower. You have the power of communication. Since I am here, you are probably the most communicative teammember, and that is a serious compliment. Just the happennings of the last 2 days proves that if you communicate and ask for support people are generally there to follow. Even "grumpy old men", like me did their job in your exonumia project and other more silent ones, who have bitter experiences with teammember arrogance, negligance and misuse of power will join "yavas-yavas" ˙(slowly-slowly) as they say in Turkey. Leadership does not come by appointment: leaders are evolving, and you are on the right path to that while still working on your bachelor's.
I would suggest to capture the momentum of some members enthusiasm related to your suggestions and start a project immediately with notgeld, and with other restructuring. It will not happen overnight, but more importantly, it is not a consequential process. It happens like when you are downloading 4-5 movies/books at a time: bits and pieces from here and there gets added, and then suddenly all is done.
Personally, I am happy to support you on notgeld, just like all of us, I am selfish: I am happy to see my collection getting into a better shape. Now, if you combine that collective selfishness, basically you got most of the people do this and that and we are done.
So, if your next step is "fantasy further", if you move one of these: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces40023.html into "Fantasy Order of Malta - Lira" [or sg similar] I can add the other 23.
And since Pajaskot, who basically added most of those Fantasy Euros, added and cropped pictures of all of them, and edited most of them - gave them order they deserved, (Huge thanks there!) now moved like half of them in a blink of an eye... I believe it will be more than ready to move further.
Quote: "Jarcek"Thanks. Just thanks.
And since Pajaskot, who basically added most of those Fantasy Euros, added and cropped pictures of all of them, and edited most of them - gave them order they deserved, (Huge thanks there!) now moved like half of them in a blink of an eye... I believe it will be more than ready to move further.
I was not aware of that. Thanks to Pajaskot, then, as well. :)
I was thinking. Surprising, but I do sometimes.
Clarified suggestion for next steps:
Create counties, territorries:
1) **Commemorative medals & medallions** - anything before WW2 - lovely pieces of engraving art
2) **Tourist medallions** - recent tourist economy memorabilia
3) **Mint tokens** - very numismatic materials of various mints
4) **Counterfeit money** - forgery and fakes. I know Neill does not like this, but it would be great to have for educational reasons
5) **Tokens** - the existing token section for phone company, grocery, lottery, new years eve, car wash, transport ... whatever you name it ... distant numismatic relations
Having said that, logically the currently successfully established **exonumia** "country, maybe shall be renamed as
6) ** Fantasy coinage** - with all fantasy issues.
Technically speaking, then we have created 6 countries for 14k coins, which is much more reasonable than having Hutt river as a country, which following this logic shall deflate to "**Fantasy coinage**", plus - which I know that it is my ethical mania - we do not need to delete anyone's work.
I am not at all involved in this, but it might deserve attention to add 2 more "countries":
7) **Religious tokens**
8) **Military medals**
They are very far away from my expertise, but certainly they are also numismatic material to have a place on a website called "NUMISTA"
p.s. I am in silent hope that banknotes come back to the table one day
I must say no. I though about this solution also, but what would that been - firstly this, then another split, and another, banknotes and so on. For what I have seen, tokens should not have been there in the first place.
Then it was allowed to have tokens - real tokens that are or were used as money or as a form of payment. Then Medals with Numismatic value - ok. Then everything.
I decided to do Exonumia not to create more fields where users can put their collectibles in, but in order to clean it up here on numista. Your sections makes sense - but they basically leads to colnect. That is something that was never wanted.
Yes those sections will exist - but only inside Exonumia.
But then what is this exonumia thing? just another way to name tokens?
I thought you were into more strategic restructuring.
I am disappointed.
With my suggestion - which I believe covers all the 6/8 categories needed - we could find a solution to all shit around tokens.
1. Split tokens - that are used to pay for services/or were used from everything else.
2. Sort that everything else - so we would have nice sections for it, and no deep black hole tokens are now.
Yes it would cover everything just fine - but where would that lead to? As a suggestion, it is good, but for that, Xavier would have to step in and change his opinion about this site. Which, as far as I know - is to build site for coins, with tokens allowed on the side.
Keep it in your head, it might be used in the future. Or tommorow, one never knows, just saying that I am not going to do it this way now. That is all.
My apologies, Sir,
But 14,000 tokens have been entered!
That is [counting with 10 minutes each] is 140,000 manminutes, i.e. 2334 manhours, in other words: 98 full mandays of works counting with a 24 day, With normal working days: 294 mandays collectively!
You have to respect that!
Neither you, nor Xavier has the ethical right to retrospectively decide that this work is useless!
I understand that it is Xavier's website, but he has let this situation go for 14,000 pieces, so there is no ethical way of turning back! We all have have to keep all of this in order, I understand that, and I support, but then let's find the best suitable solution. You are saying that Xavier never wanted this: ... cool, but then why did not he care? Where have you been Xav, when this "sudden incident of 14,000 tokens appearing" happened?
14,000 items, můj přítel, ... is not a Katanga-like entry!
Whatever you aim at doing, I support you, and I trust there are loads of others who will do, but it has to go with the respect that these things shall remain - and some strategic mission in mind!
Na zdravi,
ADDITION: Counting with a Spanish plumber's daily rate, we are talking about EUR 126,420.00 value of work done: If you feel it is okay to cause that damage to Xavier, do it! If Xavier feels okay of shooting himself in the leg, even better!
The Florino criminal already created EUR 5,980.00 of percieved loss for Xavier by deleting 2100 historic medals and tokens, and he is still a priviliged "team-member", so maybe this is the right path to go for appreciation by the master....
Quote: "chomp-master"I think that, for example, any World's Far and assimilated medals are included in your 1st category?
I am not sure I understand the question.
But, medals and medallions before WW2 or actually somewhere to the 1970s were usually a major engraving piece of art. I have to admit even some telephone tokens, like this: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces20241.html, I find numismatically interesting, while needless to say, some recent shopping cart tokens or "Smoky Joe's car wash jeton" are less interesting, but - I have to agree with derf - it is still numismatic related stuff, and in principle, they shall have a place on a website called "Numista".
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Quote: "chomp-master"I think that, for example, any World's Far and assimilated medals are included in your 1st category?
I am not sure I understand the question.
But, medals and medallions before WW2 or actually somewhere to the 1970s were usually a major engraving piece of art. I have to admit even some telephone tokens, like this: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces20241.html, I find numismatically interesting, while needless to say, some recent shopping cart tokens or "Smoky Joe's car wash jeton" are less interesting, but - I have to agree with derf - it is still numismatic related stuff, and in principle, they shall have a place on a website called "Numista".
Quote: "Jarcek"I must say no. I though about this solution also, but what would that been - firstly this, then another split, and another, banknotes and so on. For what I have seen, tokens should not have been there in the first place.
Then it was allowed to have tokens - real tokens that are or were used as money or as a form of payment. Then Medals with Numismatic value - ok. Then everything.
I decided to do Exonumia not to create more fields where users can put their collectibles in, but in order to clean it up here on numista. Your sections makes sense - but they basically leads to colnect. That is something that was never wanted.
Yes those sections will exist - but only inside Exonumia.
Yes, totally agree. The argument that you can't undo someone else's work because they took the time to put it in there just does not wash with me. As I said, If I wanted to put in the bottle of wine I had last night then I just need to find a fellow wine loving team member who's willing to verify it.
Imre's response is EXACTLY the reason why I suggested that we have the exonumia sections closed off to new entries except the items being moved in from tokens. People see the new section, get all excited, then start dumping everything they want in there. Imre's suggestions for new sections include several that both the team and Xavier decided they did not want in the catalogue.
Well, Neil, neither your wine or your steak or Jarek's Svickova Knedliky is not a numismatic item, while all others in the token section are...
That is just a thought for consideration.
How about the next category is the play money to delete. They've been bugging me for a long time now, because some of them show up first in the tokens section.
@ Jarcek - Yes, it's 8:30am here, just getting ready to start work for the day. I might sneakily move some more tokens when my boss isn't looking.
p.s. I'll probably be listening to some music from this guy, in memoriam
Quote: "neilithic"How about the next category is the play money to delete. They've been bugging me for a long time now, because some of them show up first in the tokens section.
How can I de-fix your deletion mania?
Why does it bother you if someone else collect those numismatic items, which you do not respect?
Shall I start a campaign saying that Fiji is not a proper country? It has no coinage and all shall go to junk? Certainly to be deleted, because God knows what?
- If you agree, I can certainly find historic reasons why Fiji is not a country, just a matter of time and proof. Why is this hostile attitude to those who collect tokens which YOU, do not respect as numismatic material.
I just do not understand.
plastic play money is NOT numismatic material and was stated by Xavier and the team that it should not be in here. How can I de-fix your hoarding mentality
Quote Xavier:
"Pressed pennies, military orders, commercial tokens/gifts, plastic tokens should not be included at all."
Quote from team forum:
"These are the items that will be removed from the *Tokens* list:
Pressed pennies
Religious medallions
Contemporary fakes
Modern fake coins
Arcade tokens
Medallions
Play tokens (metal and plastic)
Military orders
I have no hoarding mentality, as I do not collect/own any of these, and I wish not enter into personal attacks on this. I respect that you rage longer if tokens/medallions get in good shape but I will remain calm with no personal issues! - simply this is not a personal issue, whatever way Neil you want to turn it into that.
I do have respect for people who do collect these things and even more respect for people who actually register this in the catalog.
Why do they do this?
Because, it was - tacitly - welcomed by Xavier and the team. You can quote whatever bullshit, the fact that they are verified, proves that they have entered it into the catalog. NO WAY back!
let me put it more straitforwardly: NO FU...KING WAY BACK!
.... and I still do not understand why does it bother you that they are there? ... I am not collecting Fiji, but still don't go outrage that Fiji shall be deleted.
There is a f...king way back, and we are undertaking it now, that's what this whole project is all about, you may not like it, but we are finally getting some guidelines set up to restrict what comes into the catalogue.
And as I pointed out you can get anything into the catalogue if you find a team member compliant enough to let it in. That does not mean that it belongs in the catalogue . If you want to be part of a site that allows plastic play tokens, go to colnect.
Also your argument that they have been welcomed into the catalogue because they have been verified is invalid, because it wasn't until recently that the referee system was implemented. A lot of the tokens were put into the catalogue before the need for verification.
New sections - "Fantasy issues" are being added slowly - working as intended, so work can begin there as well.
Sorry Neil - your last requests - Finnish ones will have to wait - will fall into different category - "ECUs and Pre-1999 Euro" - I am letting them go for now, as I still wonder why some of them are in the catalogue and some in the tokens...
Sorry, I assumed that since it was in the section "*Tokens* - Finland Euro Fantasy Tokens" That it would transfer directly over to the Exonumia section. So what exactly goes into these sections? Is it any Fantasy Euro minted after 1999? I won't do any more until I've got a better idea of which ones transfer over.
Please calm down guys. Would we have to call Ben to keep this debate peaceful?
I understand that imreh disapprove any delete, that would be my point of view if only there was no rule about unwelcomed objects which are out of our business, like said Neil. So any object out of these rules (especially the 1st list directly from Xavier) should be deleted without any objection, and probably asking Xavier to do so as these objects would probably be owned, which is avoiding standard team member deletion. So let's follow these rules, please, there are trash files which have no reason to remain listed.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Quote: "Jarcek"Bad cop arrived.
Not to mention that I already seen sheets created only because member wanted to "swap" that thing or sell it here.
And did these files remained with their owner?
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
if we want to stay sane. 
