I am reading that the last eurogroup didnt bring something. The countries of the South have totaly different ideas about how to help their economies from the countries of the North. I am thinking that until now there was neither one serius problem (war in Syria, immigration problem, South economic crisis, and so many other) that Europe could make something. We cant neither defend our borders.
The question is how long time you give to € ? And if you believe that we are going to return to our nation economies.
My opinion is that the end of Euro is not so far and here in Greece i see Drachmas to return. I can not say if it will be better or not. I am not specialist on the theme but my opinion is that.
Sorry for my poor English. And have a nice day
I think we have a rule here that we should not talk about religion or politics.
Of course in some way the EU will have to help the ones in need but with the Eurobonds I can also understand that some countries are not happy about that.
Each country now have massive financial worries on their own. The Eurobonds would mean that the majority would be paid by Northern Europe without receiving anything in return, sure it sounds good for southern European Countries but sounds terrible for the rest of Europe.
The stronger economies however surely have to help the countries which are not as economically strong and cannot provide the needed medical services.
If done well in this crisis I believe we will see stronger European ties and connections in the years to come.
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If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
In my opinion European Union, despite the name, isn't united. In fact, as you've already told ZaxariasP, Europe until now wasn't able to manage very important problems. Europe it's divided as always.
It's a good think if Europe will help us, countries of the South, because if we'll experience a heavy economic crisis also Europe will suffer.
On the other hand consider what apuking said: with this solution our debt will become the debt of countries that work hard. I don't know the situation in Greece, but in Italy was so bad also before the covid crisis. Italy wants coronabonds because we are not able to pay the debt with the EMS mechanism and we'll experience things that you experienced in 2011, but it's also our responsibility: Italy just wants, wants and wants but it's not able to manage money of the EU due to corruption, mafia and at last but not least bureaucracy (that it's very heavy here). This situation remember me the fable of The Ant and the Grasshopper (I think it's well known everywere).
About € I think we'll keep it, we scrape by (with a lot of difficulties) with EU but without EU we won't be able to survive.
In my opinion, the most important thing now it's to choose what are priorities of EU: economy or to be united both in good times and in bad times.
Please note that I'm not against rich countries or poor countries in Europe, for everything there are pros and cons. This is just my point of view. I hope I haven’t offended anyone, but if I've done it please let me know kindly and I'll explain better or I'll delete my comment. I just like coins, I don't want to argue.
Quote: "pnightingale"On the bright side, if the EU does implode we can get rid of the sterile Euro and return to the Francs, Lira, Marks and Drachmae we all love so much.
Yes, it's true. We love our old currencies but problably it's better to keep € instead of leave it and suffer a big economic crisis with devaluation of the currency.
I would like to defend the European Union, because it is worth it. Union bashing is trendy, but does not seem to me neither fair nor right.
The Union is not only the freedom of movement (of persons, goods and capitals) but far more than that.
Unifying 445 millions of inhabitants from 27 countries with 24 languages, it sets a basic minimum for all of us, in many different domains:
same fundamental rights and shared higher court of justice, preventing one state to mistreat its citizens
with a (limited) shared foreign policy, but which nevertheless give the support of any union member to the member of any other state abroad, when his country is not represented.
with common diploms accepted in all countries (freedom of movment), exchanges open to all students
with common health care and food safety policies according the same rights and access to all.
with cooperations in many domains, space, telecoms, infrastructure, competition, police, justice etc.
Exemples are numerous; french victims of covid treated in Germany or Luxembourg, free roaming in all countries, courts decisions of one country that can be inforced in an other country without being challenged, weddings and divorces accepted from one country to another, same access to social security.
Hard issues (all the regalian ones) are not totally shared. But Germany is sharing its Army with France, Poland, Netherlands and relies on foreign armies for its defence !!!! The scandinavian states share their ambassies worldwide. We also have the same currency. Not easy, when economic statuses are so different, when interests are so different, when policies are so different. But we nevertheless coped with that till now and I strongly hope it will continue and deepen.
Personally I am always in favour of cooperation between people. History has learned that cooperation always provided better results. However, larger unions do have flaws, and when these flaws become too large we are back to square one.
On a micro level I have had the privilege of working with people around the world. I played football with a very diverse group, including from countries that are political adversaries and that didn't matter at all. Maybe the biggest unifying aspect was that we were all pretty bad at playing football. But we also learned that even clumsy guys can improve a lot when you start doing smart combinations.
Back to the EU, which faces a large PR problem. Many people don't realise the EU has accomplished a lot. We can easily travel and do business in the whole area, removing inefficiencies that previous generations faced. The EU also imposed stricter laws on protecting privacy forcing big tech companies to respect those. No smaller country would have been able to stand up against big corporates, but a massive block like the EU can. Its citizens should not take that for granted.
At the same time I am also deeply disappointed and worried. The protection of the outer borders is still vulnerable and relying too much on individual states. It makes European feel insecure and fear causes horrible decision making. Europe has more than enough resources to handle this, but lacks solidarity and coordination.
Another deep worry is the flawed monetary union. We are facing north versus south, which I think is a bit similar to when the Protestant Reformation happened, with northern European disagreeing with Roman Catholicism. Catholicism is a lot about forgiveness, and this includes the way how money and debt is seen. Protestants see debt as a bad thing that needs to be controlled. Forgiveness is harder for them. And not to forget the Central European states who have worked very hard to control their finances while still having lower life standards than southern Europe. It will be hard to ask for solidarity from there.
Both north and south have valid arguments. The north only wants to share their wealth if the southern countries reform their economies. But northern economic tradition probably wouldn't work in southern Europe. They have their own success formulae. Southern Europe needs to reform, but want forgiveness first. On top of that they want some smaller northern European states to stop facilitating tax evasion so that they can boost tax revenue. Also a fair point in my opinion.
I still hope that the unfolding crisis will lead to a compromise. Southern Europe, especially France and Italy, need to reform. I now see so many of their well-eductated talents work elsewhere as their own countries fail to give them the right opportunities. This is a bad sign. Macron and his team know that and I am starting to see change.
Now is the time. We should cherish what we have in Europe. Look at the global top 10 countries in living standards, the majority is in Europe. European governance is respected around the world. Australia has mostly the same governance for example.
Although I would love to see more variety in European coins, I still very much prefer a solution.
Also now its clearly obvious northern European states are having rates just as high as the south - The UK had nearly 1000 deaths yesterday.
My thoughts and prayers are with all of you in Europe, this virus has hit you guys hard and I can see carnage on a level not seen since WW2.
Here in New Zealand, we have been incredibly lucky with an early lockdown. Some 6 weeks since the first case, we have active cases dropping. Just 1330 cases in total, 472 recovered and just 4 deaths, all of very old and very sick people any way (One was in their 90s).
The active cases peaked at 927 on April 9 and now its down to 855. We are hoping to emerge from lockdown in just over a week.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
"If it helps, the buffoonery going on in America will deflect some of the attention away from the crisis in Europe."
Which buffoonery? We have so much of it.
A smart man learns from his mistakes. A smarter man learns from someone else's.
Quote: "Kurt53""If it helps, the buffoonery going on in America will deflect some of the attention away from the crisis in Europe."
Which buffoonery? We have so much of it.
This is one of the biggest problem with the EU, at least for us as a small northern country with very high standards. EU has been pushing really hard to have the same import standard of foods, but the problem is that our standards are much more strict than the EU's, so they have been trying to make us lower the standards so everyone wilm be at the same level. This is not only about foods, but also about medicine, where we have some substracts banned but the EU wants us toballow it since the rest if the EU allows it. Brussels wants us to lower our standards, which us insane. I understand that e.g. Romania and Greece cannot have our standards, fair enough, but why should we lower ours?
Also, because of the free travel inside the EU, thus has probably helped to spread the CoViD-19 much faster.
We have here the same issue in France, especially with phytosanitary products, allowed in american countries (US, Argentina, Brazil for instance) but not in France. We import meat and veggies coming from these countries while our farmers are not allowed to use them, breaching competition and giving a false impression of safety to customers.
It is partly due to the fact that the Union is part of the whole world trade and obliged to comply with WTO regulations (such as granting freedom of access and limiting the legal barreers to importation); but usually, these rights are negotiated with some balance: we import if and only if we can export....
Have a nice day, colleagues and my wish for great health.
Consent with opinion ,, jokinen,, - written you know/ Such matured people to Brussels/. My opinion is, if the EU wants to survive they have to close together. Own army, our own production of everything for life and consumption , impermeable outdoor border, we are the world's largest and richest
but we will just wander. He wants to choose people to lead who have done something, not the fools and populists in which he is inability.
I want to be proud of a strong EU, I want the Euro currency with us and I believe this parchnt viral that many things will change for the better, people will understand many things.
Good health
Ivan
Seen enough of Covid 19 on the news to not want to see it here aswell thank you.
Let's use a coin website to think about coins and get our minds off the situation. thanks.
Quote: "AshsCollectablesStore"Seen enough of Covid 19 on the news to not want to see it here aswell thank you.
Let's use a coin website to think about coins and get our minds off the situation. thanks.
Quote: "AshsCollectablesStore"Seen enough of Covid 19 on the news to not want to see it here aswell thank you.
Let's use a coin website to think about coins and get our minds off the situation. thanks.
Wise words, Ash
Please read the thread name that question and think. I write it in a decent form and in great respect and different opinions, however, according to the threads! There is no obligation to read or express yourself in this thread- no one has the right to make you read it. great respect.
Ivan
This forum is dedicated to absolutely everything but numismatic. For numismatic, you can post on all the other forums (swaps, identification and so on).
I am quite happy to read what other members from the EU or from other countries are thinking about EU and Covid. It like sharing a beer with friends in a pub, despite the lockdown. By the way, I often have my booze when surfing ;-)
We can disagree, even sometimes cross the line of the forum policy, but then everybody comes back within the spirit and goes on chatting and sharing. Thanks, mates.
The tittle of this thread is very clear. Easy to bypass.....
In my opinion the Euro will survive the current crisis, it will be the alternative between the current Dollar and the Yen
Provided, of course, that the countries agree to agree as it seems to be the case today to face this crisis.
Sorry that the UK can no longer participate
that reminds me of the position of the USA prohibiting access to 'Europeans' ... except the British
