Debate needs professional answer please

The following is a small debate that happened earlier this week.

1. How many countries have Queen Elizabeth II head on them today?
2. Was there a time when there were more countries than today that had Her head on them?
3. Was there a time when a previous monarch had their head on more countries coins that our present monarch?

This relates only to total countries, not total variety of coins. i.e. United Kingdom =1

I think i saw a thread about this somewhere else,

Queen Victoria's (or others) head was on certain Indian princely state coins too, even on Hammered coins. Some examples are from Bikanir, Alwar, Sailana. These were supposedly independent entities from British India coinage, so you will want to clarify whether you count those as separate coinage.

Off the top of my head, there would have been very many more countries/colonies/domains with QE2 head pre 1970 than after; to name just a few Malaya-Borneo, Ceylon, Rhodesia, South Africa

I would be very interested to know hard numbers too!

My estimation now

20 countries I am certain (4 really wallpaper countries) - a lot are overseas territories with own coinage based around the Sterling Pound of the UK

UK, Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Gibraltar, Canada, Bermuda, East caribbean states, Australia, New Zealand, Solomon Islands, Cook Islands, Falkland Islands, Kiribati, Tuvalu
St helena, Tristan da cunha, Ascension (Sure mostly special issues and so called crowns), Niue (Also sorts of gimmicky crap)

4 unsure - As these places have their own leaders and shields on coins

Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Fiji

Previously - many more (QE2 ERA ONLY)
South Africa (To 1960), British west africa (to 1962), Nigeria, Gambia, East Africa (to 1962), Seychelles, Mauritius, Malaya and North Borneo, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago? Rhodesia and Nyasaland, Southern Rhodesia, Hong Kong (to 1992), British Honduras, Cyprus

A total of 36 countries in all. However in 1953 - the following countries were not issuing their own coins - Kiribati, Tuvalu, Ascension, St Helena, TDC, Gibraltar, Bermuda, Cook Islands, IOM, Niue, Barbados, Bahamas, Belize/British Honduras.

So that means 21 in 1953 and 18 now, so yes more then - than there is now.

Final Question - Yes probably during the reign of King George VI before 1947 as the coins of British India were also circulating (Although many independent nations used British or federation coins like West and East Africa, East Caribbean. Some also used coins of larger dominions or colonies, like Rhodesian coins in Nyasaland (Malawi), South African coins in SWA, Bechuanaland, Basutoland etc. New Zealand coins circulated in the Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga and Tokelau/Niue. Fijian coins circulated in the Solomon Islands and New Hebrides etc. Territory of New Guinea had its own coins though.
Burma and Ceylon had its own coins along with Straits settlement (Singapore).

As far as I know.

GB/UK etc - issuing coins since Celtic era and continuously since 600AD. Coins used in most colonial places into the late 20th century in some places.

Australia - Own coinage 1910 onwards, always British Monarch, used British and several other currencies beforehand (1800 Proclaimation coins)

Canada - Several provincial currencies and tokens in 19th century, first Canada coins 1858, last province Newfoundland 1940s - all coins have British monarch to this day.

New Zealand - Used British coins until 1939 (Pennies and Silver), Australian 1910 - 1933 - own coinage 1933 now - always British monarch on coins.

South Africa - Used British Monarch on coins only 1923 - 1960. Before that date used British coins and some Boer coinages from 1874 to 1900. After 1961 became a republic and dropped the British monarch from coins.

Guernsey and Jersey - Both issued coins from mid 1800s in doubles and fractions of a shilling - coins showed the Monarch, in 1971 both switched to Decimal pound but used own coins.

Isle of Man - Only issued coins from 1970s onwards - mostly crowns

Gibraltar - Only issued coins from 1966 onwards like IOM all have the Monarch

East Caribbean States - Started issuing own coins in 1955 after they left the Jamaican pound and used a dollar system. Used in many British Caribbean islands - both independent and overseas territory.

Jamaica - Started issuing coins in 1860s - switched to decimal dollar in 1969 and also took the monarch off their coins - having arms and national heroes on recent coins.

Falkland Islands/TDC/St. Helena/Ascension - All started coins in the 1970s, decimal and have the Queens head on them - but many gimmicky crown issues, some of very low repute especially TDC.

Cyprus - Issued coins since Greek times (BC) but British made coins came in 1890s and were issued through to 1970s when the Cypriot Pound was introduced. British monarchs last appeared on the 1955 issue.

Malta - Used British coins until 1972 and then had their own coins - none ever showed a British Monarch and like most Republics in the Commonwealth has their own designs on coins.

Middle Eastern colonies - Aden, Palestine, Trucial States, Bahrain etc - None ever had a British monarch on coins - all used variations of the Indian or Ceylonese rupee and even East African shillings until 1960s when independence and own currencies took over.

India - Used British monarch on coins between 1700s (Some colonies) to 1947 (India and Princely states). After 1947 had independent coins and designs.

Ceylon - Same for India - but used a decimalised rupee from 1877 onwards. No monarchs after 1948.

Seychelles/Mauritius - Both used a derivation of the Sri Lankan rupee and had British monarchs on coins until the 1970s - when independent designs took over.

SWA/Bechuanaland/Basutoland/Swaziland - All used South African pound until 1961 and then the Rand and independent currencies afterwards. Same notes apply to them.

East Africa - Used a Rupee (to 1907, Florin to 1926 and Shilling) until 1962 and these coins and notes had the monarch on them. The 3 countries were Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika, and also Zanzibar for a while - in the 1961/63 all became independent and the Queen disappeared from coins to make way for local currencies and leaders, a postal union remianed until 1976 though.

West Africa - Monarchs head until 1961 - This included Nigeria, Gold Coast, Sierra Leone and Gambia. As they all became independent, they dropped the head of the Monarch. Nigeria in 1962, Sierra Leone from 1961, Ghana never had it using their dictateur Nkrumah and Gambia had one issue of QE2 coins in 1966 before the first of their "Personality jock" presidents took over" Sir Ahmed Jawa Dawda's head appeared on all stamps and coins until he was overthrown.

Rhodesia/Nyasaland - Southern Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) issued coins in 1932 and used the Monarch's head through to 1978 coins - the coins circulated in Zambia (N.Rho) and Malawi (Nyasaland) until their independence and Kamazu Banda and Kenneth Kaunda demanded coins with their own heads on them in the 60s. 53/63 was one union but after 63 Independence began.
Zimbabwe issued coins with the Zimbabwe bird one them (None with Mugabe surprisingly)

Fiji - Issued coins with British Monarch from 1934 onwards, 1969 became decimal and kept Monarchs head until 2012 when political instability saw it kicked out of the commonwealth, came back in 2018, but kept the non Lizzie coins.

Tonga/Samoa - Used NZ and Australian coins until 1967 and issued coins with their own rulers since (Tongan King and Samoan Tamasese or Malietoa (Head of state)

Niue/Tokelau - Under NZ Control, but issue mainly NCLT thematic wallpaper coins on irrelevant topics, they do have the Monarch's head though.

Cook Islands - NZ colony until 1965 and got own coinage in 1972 - use the monarch's head on all coins to now - dollar same as NZ

Solomon Islands - Got own currency in 1977 and use the Monarch's head on all their coins

PNG and New Guinea - New Guinea issued copper pennies, Silver 3d, 6d and 1/- from 1935 to 1945 all with holes and all with name of the Monarch. After that used Australian currency - in 1975 got own currency - but do not use British monarch's head on anything now.

Tuvalu/Kiribati - Used to be Gilbert Islands and used Fijian currency until 1976/79 - independent nations by 1980 using own coins and after a few early issues switched to coins with their own shield rather than the monarch.

New Hebrides/Vanuatu - As a condominium used French oceanic currency and coins minted in France bilingually after 1950 - before used New Caledonian Franc and Fijian Pound for British. In 1983 got own currency of vatu - never ever had a British monarch.

Well this is all I can add to your debate now!

that’s some great detail!

Correction for Ceylon; there was one coin that indeed portrayed QE2 until 1957

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces2624.html

As for India, I believe the British east India company or the princely states issued hammered coinage under mughal firman in the 1700s and may have even sneakily inserted a crown or “G” for George on some coinage. However AFAIK, no coins bearing English Monarch portraits before Vicki well into the early mid 1800s exist. Of course, it’s entirely possible I overlooked something?

Oh my god, that little coin slipped my mind. I knew something or three would be wrong as I have a 1954 stamp of Ceylon celebrating her royal visit.

So different to India who cut all links and loyalty to her after Independence in 1947 and full Republic in Jan 1950.

Basically members of the Commonwealth fall into 3 camps.

1. Colonies and overseas territories - no choice, must have the sovereign on their coins and stamps. Also includes British channel islands and British antarctic territories.

2. Independent countries with Queen as head of state - Generally must have her on currency - some countries with native heads of state like Tonga and Samoa have own leaders - others like PNG actual do not have her on coins - but she is the head of state and a Governor general is in residence in that country. New Zealand is one such place - our GG Dame Patsy Ready is a Kiwi but Her Majesty's representative here too.

3. Independent Republics - pay lip service to Commonwealth, but not to monarchy - have own symbols and Presidents on coins. Places like India, Malta, Mauritius etc.