Rome (ancient) - I'm looking for people who are interested to clean the mess!

Dear Teammembers,

I am planning to add my Roman collection, already added about 12 coins, however as the area is very messy, honestly that holds me back.
I would prefer to create the structure first then enter the coins. (btw; this is the way we did it with Xavier in case of Hungary - BUT here we need more Roman enthusiasts!)
So, clearly, in this post I am looking for people who would be interested in cleaning this up, and work together on this issue.
Some issues:

• The convention of using names is ambiguos, sometimes French or English, even Italian. My suggestion: all shall be Latin (e.g. Claude=Claudius; denier=denarius, etc.)
  
• The currency system shall be set properly: I suggest "Roman Republic (280bc - 41bc)"; "Roman Imperatorial (49bc-27bc) and "Roman Imperial (27bc-491ad)" as 3 minimum periods, if we want to keep it simple or more? what's your view?
  
• Which catalogue to use as the KM of the Roman World? SEAR, RIC or both?
  

Please, drop a line, if you are interested in structuring Rome,
GRATIAS CVM SALVTATIONES

That is the standart categories for Roman coins, go for it. I am slowly changing the Ancient Greek and Indian coin categories, but there are few coins in them at the moment. So it is easier. I will help a little. We need a standardised patern for the coin information, like naming, but some changes will be etoed by the admins.
Glen.

Quote: EnlilninlilWe need a standardised patern for the coin information, like naming, but some changes will be vetoed by the admins.
Glen.

Thanks, Glen, this standardized pattern is the key word to me as well.

I have no clue about Roman coins at all... however I agree with your first point about having Latin names.

I can offer no opinion on the catalogues though as I own neither of them.

Thank you, Charliebest,

Any other teammembers you reckon?
My odds are not looking good on this one

Quote: Pink Floyd:The WallHello...
Is there anybody out there?

I hate Pink Floyd, still have nightmares.

OK - to start, do we make the dates the same, or the names?

Quote: EnlilninlilI hate Pink Floyd, still have nightmares.

OK - to start, do we make the dates the same, or the names?

Sorry about that.

We need a teammember to support, since we cannot change the currency system and names of emperors on the already registered coins.
In the meantime somehow now we have 2 additonal Roma countries in French ... to further increase the mess

I would use RIC for the Romans as the KM is usless. Though the catalogue I have not.

Hello teammembers,

No reaction?

Hello! I found this problem with my first roman coin. I think we should divide the imperial period into low and high (I don't know if these are the right terms).

I agree with latin names. Based on my first problems to classify a coin, I think it should be nice to fill some data (mints, mintmarks, dates) and maybe make a numisdoc with the basics?

Also, dates should be in dates field, not in title. I propose something like this https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36380.html. Of course, I'm very much less than an amateur in roman coins, but in big picture I think the coins shoud have:

-Title: "type of coin" at the name of "emperator"
-Date or period
-All the possible mints, with their corresponding mintmarks (great help for newbies)
-Letering with completions (D[ominus]N[oster] instead of DN) to make more sense for newbies or languages not related with latin (for spanish speakers it's actually pretty easy )

Here is usual to use the Damian Salgado classification number for low empire

(sorry gramar mistakes)

It seems Numista is not for Roman coin collectors.
I will move my Romans and register at some serious place.
Au revoir!

And where are you going to? I'm collecting medieval also, but I did not find any good places to go.

Quote: leandro87And where are you going to? I'm collecting medieval also, but I did not find any good places to go.

Currently, I am going back to my excel sheet, then I'll do some search on the weekend, I'll let you know if I find something

Please - for those you can get a bit of French, see what has been decided for the French part : (sorry people interested in Rome on that part before you guys....)

https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic8820.html

by the way, normal that some title appears in French... when a file is created in French, the title in English become automatically the same on the English catalogue. Someone from the English team (or someone else, anyone) has to translate it in the English catalogue....
the same if the file is created in English...
Please, always check the French catalogue to see if you have more info in the French part (for instance metal, description, might only appear on one "side" of Numista), and please feel free to translate in English when you see a French name in the English catalogue.

Quote: 7475laurentby the way, normal that some title appears in french... when a file is created in french, the title in english become automaticly the same on the english catalogue. Someone  from the english team (or someone else, anyone) have to translate it in the english catalogue....

There's a page for easily translating pages without having to open them.

Whoever wants to "clean the mess" of Ancient Rome should utilize this page, as it is very helpful!

The translating tool page is only an option for the members of the team. Other member can not access it.

That is true!

Maybe someone who willing to verify Rome (ancient), as well as other pages should join the team, and I know who it should be.

Dear Laurent and SmartOneKg,

Firstly, I am very happy that you guys are joined here constructively, and if you allow an humble leadership consultant with 22 years experience, the Numista team surely needs a some kind of a "team cohesion" program, e.g. maybe your internal forum or whatever it is, is clearly not doing the job on aligning you guys in one direction. Please, do not take it as criticism, it is just an honest feedback from me, who really wants to see this site working in perfection.

Secondly, I am very happy that, that little incident has brought you here, Laurent, and I hope that you will be able to link the two forums together. I am more than willing to support whatever efforts to clean up the mess, as the original title suggests. I was not aware of the other forum discussion, and I have to admit I didn't read it through, as despite 3 years in France, my French limits to getting along in restaurants and managing the boulanger

My point (see above) is that structural changes needs to be done in the "creating a new coin" section, if we try to squeeze the KM logic into ancients, that will lead to compromises, most of us will regret later! - this is my key message!
Just a few examples (and I can go further if you guys (that includes Xavier!) are willing to think outside the current logic):
1. Unlike the KM monopoly in the 16th-21th century, in ancients there are "competing" catalogues, some people use SEAR some use the RIC - and the ratio is about 50/50 in my experience - therefore Numista shall be able to handle alternative cat. numbers.
2. Most of the Romans can be identified in 2 steps: 1) emperor 2) the God on reverse. Now, where do I put that God? - it seems Tetricus puts in the title. That is a compromise solution. It would be much better to create a special section for that, so people can easily search for "Fides" if they wish so.
3. etc. ... Caesar or Emperor ...?
There is a lot longer list of specifics to Romans, which require consensus from people who upload and verify those coins.

On the French naming: do not take me wrong, the problem is not that the information is French; to me the problem is that it is NOT Latin. Similarly, I dislike when people refer to Antonius as Anthony in English  Latin would be the language every Roman collector can relate to.

Laurent, let me know what you think,
Cheers,
Imre

P.S. Are the Roman currency structure finished and approved?

Hello,
sorry but about Roman, Severine (me the one writing now) started to try to "clean" a bit the section months ago while she was pregnant and had quite a lot of time (stopping sports).. now the baby is here, it is very difficult to get time for her (especially she started working again last week). So, for us, our "engagement" on this section will be minimum for the moment (especially as we are not collectors of those coins, we are not interested and we do not know anything on the subject..). The only stuff we do is "validating" (which means put a green check on the file and block any change on the file - so the work done can not be spoiled by anyone not from the team except by asking a specific change) files Tetricus or other tell us are good. We think Tetricus is not so good in English... what we suggest is we put your message on the French forum, and we hope some "bilingual" (maybe Batz) can help you and Tetricus communicate and find a good arrangement.

By the way about "names" it has been a very big debate on the team about that, and we finally decided some different stuff on different country and the "rule" can change from English to French Numista... very difficult to explain, but we usualy try to keep the ruler name in the native language (Juan Carlos in Spanish for instance) but when the name definitely exists and is very common in the "translating" language (and even maybe people would not understand the "original" name) such as "Elisabeth" (in French instead of Elizabeth) or Jean Paul II (the Pope, I do not even know what would be the original Italian name ?) we keep the "translated" name... so of course, this is a bit confusing, and it might depend on team members correcting... but the important is to be "homogenous" inside a country at least... (and normally a same country is corrected by a same team member...). SO we guess the "rule" would be the same for Roman coins...

About cohesion... the team has cohesion... you know, we prefer not to answer on that we might again be bad with someone and that's not the purpose... (also we need more "arms" and there are very few team members bilingual to make cohesion between French and English forum... one of the the main ones is taking care of a 3month old kid for now and has definitely no time for that... everyday work)

By the way.. we only "validated" the files in the French section... that means common field (numbers, dates, numerical field, inscriptions) are blocked (this normally also included currency division, which, yes was kind of validated by people in the French forum), but all "English" field (such as names, description) are not blocked. If you feel like changing every-name to put Roman name, that is possible for you, even without any "permission" from the team. Just "modify data".
Especially.. it seams no-one in the English forum was so interested in the subject... so we guess that can be the "rule" for the English side of the Roman coins.

again : if you want to know which files are validaded, you need to go on the French Numista and see the ones with the "green check"

the little page on a file that say "123" means the date can not be change

again : the "division" of "currency" have been divided in the French Numista but for what we see it was not translated yet in the English Numista (this can only be done by Xavier)... so the name should be translated in some time... might be a long time... but the division should not change, only translation...

okay, Laurent, so the message is... ?

I feel like talking to someone who had drunk, ... well,...  just a little bit more Calvados, than needed...
I should do what I want?
- this is the last thing, I have been asking for!
You throw in Batz for help. Currently, in my best judgement, I do not think he is literate at all; but maybe things will change...
anyways, this is not very promising for the Romans.

Quote: imreh

okay, Laurent, so the message is... ?

I feel like talking to someone who had drunk, ... well,...  just a little bit more Calavados, than needed...
I should do what I want? - this is the last thing, I have been asking for.
You throw in Batz for help. Currently, in my best judgement, I do not think he is literate at all; but maybe things will change...
anyways, this is not very promising for the Romans

Of course after your message I will not help you  

oh. please, do not, Batz, I do not need help.

I appreciate to co-work with people, who are respectful to others.
Currently, you seem like a gangman who have organized a slaughter on poor SmartOneKg, clearly the most useful member on Numista, so You shall not teach me manners till you get sober!

or at least till you PUBLICLY apologize SmartOneKg, as a gentleman, for your unjustified dirty claims.
Till that you are just a piece of unremarkable gangman to me.
After that, we can talk about coins
Cheers,
Imre

I have began to help clean up the Roman mess, but I can't get very for due to my limited knowlage of Roman coins.

imreh, we just sent you a nice private message, trying to help, that was before we read that ! ... argh, we kind of regret... well.. we will see... what do you mean by "someone who is drunk" ? Our English is not good ? Sorry, we do our best ! And, sorry if this colaboration goes that way, we might not help at all and go back to our 3 months old baby who certainly need more us than you and your Romans coins !!

By the way as Smart is the most useful team member, just ask him to help on the Roman, we give up.

Quote: 7475laurentBy the way as Smart is the most useful team member, just ask him to help on the Roman, we give up.

I see some sarcasm there.

I don't know anything about Roman coins, to be honest, but I will gladly accept any requests that are sent.

Quote: SmartOneKgI see some sarcasm there.

I don't know anything about Roman coins, to be honest, but I will gladly accept any requests that are sent.

Like here.
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic9790.html

It's a shame that you people take all this in a bad manner. It's a cancer of every free forum I saw until now, the ones that are in charge think that all the work they do (that it's a  lot and we apreciate ) can detract the people sugestions, as stated before, suggestions make evolution faster.

It's always better say "ok, it's a good idea but I don't know/don't have time, let's see..." than saying "do it yourself if you want, if not go away"

Quote: leandro87It's always better say "ok, it's a good idea but I don't know/don't have time, let's see..." than saying "do it yourself if you want, if not go away"

True, true.

The question is if we are able to implement them. Features such as lettering alignment are now open (although there is much popular dispute), but website suggestions that require modification of the website rather than the catalogue cannot be implemented.

Quote: 7475laurentOur English is not good ? Sorry, we do our best ! And, sorry if this colaboration goes that way, we might not help at all and go back to our 3 months old baby who certainly need more us than you and your Romans coins !!

No, Laurent, your English is good. Maybe I was using inappropriate joking or metaphor, if that is the case, then my sincere apologies.

More precisely, what happened, the way I see it:
1) You were proudly announcing that the French forum are way ahead, and had agreed on how to enter Romans
2) Then I visited the French thread, which is really long, and asked you for some conclusions and guidance
3) Then your answer in 3 posts + the PM, essentially is: "we cannot help, because of the baby and our limited English... do what you want on the English side"
4) Then I wrote - maybe in improper tone - my observation, that I am confused: Do you have the standards on the French side, or you don't?
5) Then you got offended and has withdrawn. Fine.

Still, I would like to thank you for 3 things:
1) Thanks for guiding me to the French post, as I got to know Tetricus, who is knowledgeable on Romans and helpful and we're getting along with Google translate quite okay.
2) Thanks for letting me know (or the entire Numista community) that the French side might have different standards from the English; and what is already verified on the French side, might not be on the English one. That means that we can take leadership here and just create the standards with Tetricus to be in line in principle, but differ slightly on some needs.
3) very importantly:

Quote: 7475laurentBy the way as Smart is the most useful team member, just ask him to help on the Roman, we give up.

Thank you for supporting and authorizing SmartOneKg to do the job, because attitude is a lot of times more important than anything else:

Quote: SmartOneKgI don't know anything about Roman coins, to be honest, but I will gladly accept any requests that are sent.

Roman coins are a wonderful world, it is really easy to learn them, and I will be very happy to guide that since, you have volunteered.
I will open another post soon, with the standards on entering Roman coins, and I'll just start to do the job myself, as suggested.

Thanks a lot.
Imre

Thank you for clearly putting your viewpoint out there. I am sure that everyone knows how much time both Laurent and Severine put into Numista and with a baby they are entitled to focus on their role as parents over their super hobby.

Meanwhile, I am glad you have an enthusiasm to help the website and recognise your hard work, particulary with your Hungarian coins that you added to the catalogue.

I am sure we are working to the same goal and I appreciate that one can get frustrated with how far you can get. It'll come in time and with you on side, I am sure we can get further along. Perhaps you are considering joining the team?

Also, as a multi-lingual site I am sure that some misunderstandings can be made and just be mindful of this!

Hello all,

I have delivered my commitment, and added a new post on building Rome properly. I am sure that we will be able to make it! I am not searching for the authority of teammembers anymore, I'll just do it myself for all of us.

I will stop asking for permissions, but continue discussing, and start acting!
All of you guys, who have a passion for SPQR,
join the work here: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic12687.html !

We'll make it for God's sake!

p.s. Thanks, Ben, for your nice words, you are a true Gentleman!... Kenny, be with me, please!

Quote: bam777I am sure we are working to the same goal and I appreciate that one can get frustrated with how far you can get. It'll come in time and with you on side, I am sure we can get further along. Perhaps you are considering joining the team?

I think that having Imreh on the team might help dissolve the animosity between the English and French Numista.