exonumia help [solved]

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sekanman
Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 107
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 17:38 #
Posted: #
I have come across this piece in my coin searches and need a little assistance with identification/language/attribution.

ZacUK Numista team
Joined: 3 Jan 2011
Posts: 16710
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 18:00 #
Posted: #
It is a Hungarian medal for fencing.
Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins
sekanman
Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 107
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 18:21 #
Posted: #
thank you for that. can you tell what the wording is? Not sure if its old age or the form of the words, but having an issue comprehending the letters.
ZacUK Numista team
Joined: 3 Jan 2011
Posts: 16710
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 18:31 #
Posted: #
Still looking, but yes tricky lettering.
Something like >
III KCR TORNA CS VIVOCGYLCT
which makes no sense like that.

The two names are
V. Szilas
K. Hawel BP

Not sure what BP means, and which is the engraver or the person celebrating 50 years.
Though a lot of Hungarian coins have BP on them.
Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins
sekanman
Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 107
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 18:39 #
Posted: #
many thanks for the followup. I have taken the BP=Budapest as in a mintmark. may or may not be correct.
ZacUK Numista team
Joined: 3 Jan 2011
Posts: 16710
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 18:44 #
Posted: #
Yes, still trying to find what the P means.

Magyar Pénzverö Zrt. (Hungarian Mint Ltd.), Budapest
Perhaps Budapest Pénzverö 8.
Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins
ZacUK Numista team
Joined: 3 Jan 2011
Posts: 16710
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 18:49 #
Posted: #
I went to translate and it means Mint

Translations of pénzverő
Noun Frequency
mint
menta, pénzverde, pénzverő
coiner
pénzverő

So Budapest Pénzverö may be correct, the Budapset Mint = BP hopefully.
Presumably it was they who made your medal.
Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins
ZacUK Numista team
Joined: 3 Jan 2011
Posts: 16710
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 18:52 #
Posted: #
Then, presumably ...

K. Hawel BP
was the engraver, a mint employee

V. Szilas
was the person shown on there.

Not sure what the 50 years 1887 to 1937 mean.
And if it really was for fencing why is he not holding a sword instead?
Hopefully other members might know answers.
Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins
krezga
Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 273
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 20:43 #
Posted: #
Hello!

III KER —> short for “III. kerület”, that means district 3 (one of the district of Budapest)

TORNA ÉS VÍVÓEGYLET —> gymnastics and fencing club

1887 was the year when the club get founded.

https://hu.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/III._Ker%C3%BCleti_TVE
ZacUK Numista team
Joined: 3 Jan 2011
Posts: 16710
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 22:09 #
Posted: #
Well done! :8D
Thank you.
Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins
ZacUK Numista team
Joined: 3 Jan 2011
Posts: 16710
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 22:36 #
Posted: #
I was thinking at the time maybe the C was an angular shape, so if only
I had tried it with an E instead I might have found the medal quicker!

III KCR TORNA CS VIVOCGYLCT
>
III KER TORNA ES VIVOEGYLET
>
III KER TORNA ÉS VÍVÓEGYLET

Token collector [1600-1899] with some coins
krezga
Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 273
Posted: 4 Jan 2020, 23:34 #
Posted: #
Quote: "ZacUK"​ I was thinking at the time maybe the C was an angular shape, so if only
​I had tried it with an E instead I might have found the medal quicker!
​
​III KCR TORNA CS VIVOCGYLCT
​>
​III KER TORNA ES VIVOEGYLET
​>
​III KER TORNA ÉS VÍVÓEGYLET
​
​
​yes, but it is much more easier if your native language is hungarian :) ;)

btw nice piece of art!
Status changed to Solved (sekanman, 5 Jan 2020, 01:23)
sekanman
Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 107
Posted: 5 Jan 2020, 01:25 #
Posted: #
Thank you ZacUK and krezga for the assistance and positive ID. You are definitely correct in native languages helping to understand. Thanks again to both of you.
PetrusAscanus
Joined: 22 Nov 2014
Posts: 6304
Posted: 7 Jan 2020, 10:41 #
Posted: #
http://numizmatika.aranypengo.hu/
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
sekanman
Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 107
Posted: 7 Jan 2020, 16:21 #
Posted: #
thank you for the link PetrusAscanus
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