It's a ridiculous rule but as I said it's not about you Matt but about these biased french mods. I don't try to get you banned, it would be a shame for them to do it when actually not a single thread in this section is fully compliant with another ridiculous rule #3 that state this:
3. Selling post minimum requirements:
- Good quality pictures clearly showing obverse and reverse of the coin for sale (not generic pictures).
- Weight, metal and diameter of the coin for sale.
- A fixed price.
Hey mods, please tell me how many selling threads are compliant with this rule? Are those members banned? Are you lazy or just biased?
While you are still here, on second account (that is something moderators usually ban) basically pointing out fingers at others and attacking moderators.
Quote: "Jarcek"Lol. Matt has exactly one post....
While you are still here, on second account (that is something moderators usually ban) basically pointing out fingers at others and attacking moderators.
Man, get over it.
That’s what my thoughts were that as long as it is on one post it’s ok they just don’t want to have multiple post cluttering up the forum. If there is in fact anything wrong with my post please do let me know and I will happily make adjustments or delete it.
@Jarcek You are in Numista team and you don't know the difference between thread and post, am I right? Or you simply just don't know to count. What about this rule?
3. Selling post minimum requirements:
- Good quality pictures clearly showing obverse and reverse of the coin for sale (not generic pictures).
- Weight, metal and diameter of the coin for sale.
- A fixed price.
Is this fulfilled also? I will get over when I'll see you are not biased anymore or at least when you are ready to admit your mistakes.
Quote: "Jarcek"Lol. Matt has exactly one post....
While you are still here, on second account (that is something moderators usually ban) basically pointing out fingers at others and attacking moderators.
Man, get over it.
That’s what my thoughts were that as long as it is on one post it’s ok they just don’t want to have multiple post cluttering up the forum. If there is in fact anything wrong with my post please do let me know and I will happily make adjustments or delete it.
Matt
Our mods thought about everything. Are you ready? Rule #4 A new sale involves the creation of a new thread.
Don't worry Matt you are fine, these mods are not.
Well, obviously, more threads pollute the forum much more, than posting in the same thread. Based on what you can see on the forum, that rule is not enforced.
I still don't get your point. And I am not really sure why you are dragging more people into your fray with moderators. With second account...
From your cloudy world you still don't get my point?
Why some rules are applied and others are not? What's the point of having rules if they are not applied? Basically you tell me that Numista team acts on mood not by rules since they apply only the rules that are convenient for them.
And yes, I am on a second account just because of what I just said. You and other moderators act based on mood not on rules.
I am not a moderator. If I were, you would't be writing from second account anymore, but probably third, or fourth one.
All I am seeing is one guy who could not get over a rather small reprimand, and everyone is now wrong. Mods, rules, creation of rules, application of rules, etc.
Get over with, I was banned from the forum as well earlier or my posts were deleted. I am just not rattling about it over and over and over.
So no, I don't see your point, arguing about how rules apply by going around the rules.
Just because you are ignorant that doesn't mean all of us should be like that. If something is wrong you should be able to say it and fix it. If you see these rules as being flawless then they should be applied but they aren't, at least not for all.
Quote: "Jarcek"I am not a moderator. If I were, you would't be writing from second account anymore, but probably third, or fourth one.
Just saying this you prove that instead admitting your wrong and fix it, you would do more just because there is a dirty finger (second account) pointing at you.
PS: do you want to bet if you can ban accounts faster than I can create them?
Quote: "Andy288"Maximum of 1 (one) sale post per week.
It's a ridiculous rule but as I said it's not about you Matt but about these biased french mods. I don't try to get you banned, it would be a shame for them to do it when actually not a single thread in this section is fully compliant with another ridiculous rule #3 that state this:
3. Selling post minimum requirements:
- Good quality pictures clearly showing obverse and reverse of the coin for sale (not generic pictures).
- Weight, metal and diameter of the coin for sale.
- A fixed price.
Hey mods, please tell me how many selling threads are compliant with this rule? Are those members banned? Are you lazy or just biased?
Hey, that first one I would say it's how you look at it. 1 sale post per week.
Could be per week as in the week you post it, 14 november his first post being in week 46 of 2019 and 20 november being in week 47 of 2019 then nothing has been against the rule. It's not clear. If one per week after posting the first, so you can't post within 7 days after posting the first then he had to wait one more day before posting that second post :D
That second rule isn't being enforced in most sales threads indeed, barely every see weight, metal and diameter listed.
But come on Andy, understand you are pissed and I think maybe you are even right at some points they are biased. But take it with officials in a PM. Don't put other members like Matt in the open here, that's sad.
But they should rewrite the sales policy, not 100% clear and maybe some rules make no sense if they aren't ever enforced anyways.
I have nothing against Matt as you can see there is not a single thread in that section fully compliant with the sales rules. Let's just not hide anymore and admit the facts that I've been banned just because one moderator has the mood to ban someone and thought that I am a punk that will say nothing. Asking some explanations about this, other Numista team members instead being objective and fix this abuse actually they endorsed VieillePile's actions. So this is not a matter that will be hidden in PMs where none is wrong and nothing it's fixed.
Quote: "Andy288"I have nothing against Matt as you can see there is not a single thread in that section fully compliant with the sales rules. Let's just not hide anymore and admit the facts that I've been banned just because one moderator has the mood to ban someone and thought that I am a punk that will say nothing. Asking some explanations about this, other Numista team members instead being objective and fix this abuse actually they endorsed VieillePile's actions. So this is not a matter that will be hidden in PMs where none is wrong and nothing it's fixed.
@Jarcek why are you so offended by my second account but you are not offended by other rules that are not complied. Bias?
@Salaction let's see: first PM's were with VieillePile who actually banned me, then I swapped dozen of PMs with pejounet who strongly endorsed VieillePile, then I swapped some PMs with oggy that agreed that my ban was harsh but instead of doing something he said to fix this with VieillePile in PM
That was something like you are a police officer, you see a crime but you send the victim to fix the issue with the offender because you don't want to be caught in this matter, really?
EDIT: I forgot about Xavier, I PM him when this happened but I didn't actually asked him to fix this as much as I told him to take a closer look at his biased team. He read the message after like 4-5 days and surely he didn't replied
Quote: "Andy288"EDIT: I forgot about Xavier, I PM him when this happened but I didn't actually asked him to fix this as much as I told him to take a closer look at his biased team. He read the message after like 4-5 days and surely he didn't replied
Right, I wondered whether you had messaged him. Strange he doesn't reply. I'd say he's the one to complain about mods, right? If they don't reply then I'd agree, what else can we do besides going public?
What he actually could reply? Now everyone knows that Numista team is a mess. They know it as well but it's a little hard to admit it and fix what is wrong.
Quote: "Andy288"Maximum of 1 (one) sale post per week.
Firstly, I would just like to point out: a thread is the same as a post, but a post is not always the same as a thread. Sure, it may be a bit ambiguous, but as far as I am aware, Numista does not have a professional editor. Simple mistakes like that are excpected without one.
I am under the belief that people are the most efficiant when everyone gets along. Of course, it cannot be expected that everyone gets along. That is an unreasonable expectation. But this thread (or post) seems to only been meant to aggravate. Broken down to the basic content, this thread is still relevant--you pointed out a word mistake that can be corrected--but the way in which you stated it was unnecessary.
Quote: "Andy288"Now everyone knows that Numista team is a mess. They know it as well but it's a little hard to admit it and fix what is wrong.
I do not typically like responding to threads created to aggravate, but you keep addressing the Numista Team as a whole, making me feel obligated to say... something.
I will go with this: your level of hypocrisy honestly shocks me.
You are calling out biases, but biases are, for the most part, unavoidable. Take this line of yours, for example:
Quote: "Andy288"Where are my french mods?
From what I have read in both this thread and your last one (which I did read in its entirety), you have a strong bias against the French. Also, they are not 'your' moderators: you do not own them.
They, like the rest of us, are people. Nothing more to it. The Numista Team is comprised of sixteen members. You seem to be constantly pointing out the errors of three members (three who have shown opposition towards you), have shown praise for three others members (three who have shown support towards you, either past or present), and the rest... I do not recall you making posts about.
But still, you seem to have a bias against the whole team.
Here is another example:
Quote: "Andy288"I will get over when I'll see you are not biased anymore or at least when you are ready to admit your mistakes.
Maybe they made a mistake. Maybe they did not. I am not in a position to make a judgment on that. And honestly, I do not care. But it is obvious that, in your eyes, they made a mistake. Likewise, I am sure that, in their eyes, you made a mistake. But I do not recall you admitting to any mistakes. To me, this seems like one of those situations where a mutal disagreement should ensure and everyone should just move on.
And... yea. Any other comments I can possibly think of have already been stated by other members. I will avoid any redundancy and end here.
Andy, if new members read here, then you could just show them an example of more decent behavior anyway. A lot of members have complaints about the referee and the team, but they are not so toxic at the forum.
Quote: "Sulfur"Maybe they made a mistake. Maybe they did not. I am not in a position to make a judgment on that. And honestly, I do not care. But it is obvious that, in your eyes, they made a mistake. Likewise, I am sure that, in their eyes, you made a mistake.
I am not just against french moderators but against any other Numista team member that can say what you just did above. Maybe they made a mistake? You're not in a position to make a judgment? I suppose you are a normal man that can read statements and evaluate them as true or false, many other members looking at this situation could say it was not right, even few Numista team members, but as you stated above they don't care.
I never claimed that I was right. I made mistakes and I've been punished, they made mistakes and none is punished. Here is what it's unacceptable.
Will you teach me what a post and a thread mean? When I asked pejounet (who wrote the sales policy) about that he was clear that a single thread with many posts doesn't comply with the rules. And this is even more clear from rule #4 which state that a new sale should be done in a new thread. You didn't said nothing about rule #3 which state that every sale should be done using high quality pictures, weight, metal, diameter and a fixed price for the sale. Is there any sale complying with this? Are you still not sure if moderators made a mistake?
@Cyrillius I have a great respect for you and I understand that you don't like this crap, I don't either but I don't like to be treated like a punk by few biased moderators. Let new members see what is going on here. Actually it's really sad if a lot of members have complaints about the referees and the team.
THE FACTS:
. You offered hundreds of coin for sale on November 10th, November 12th, November 12th and November 13th.
. These sales have been reported as non complying on November 14th.
. I PMed you the following:
"Dear Andy289, You did not comply with the sales policy , which led to complains and report from other members. You have been therefore banned for ten days."
. The forum policy for breaching these rules is a 30 days ban. (https://en.numista.com/forum/topic70991.html)
. You answered " What exactly?"
. I forwarded you the link to the policy.
. You answered " I know that. What exactly I did not comply?"
. I answered by quoting the rules 7 and 8.
. You answered "Really dude? Are you 12 years old? I am member since 2013 and I have like 50 swaps all rated 5 stars with reputable members and just because I have health issues and I don't swap anymore but I sell some of my coins in 4 different threads just to not create a big thread (certainly I am not a coin dealer since I don't remember to sell coins before) this means I don't comply with Numista rules? Did you checked my contribution on Numista? Do I look like someone who is here for coin selling? You guys are unbelievable, being moderator I expected to see why these rules has been placed in Numista rules and what are they trying to prevent. For everyone it's a no brain dilemma but nor for you. Well done, my friend. I'm done here.
PS: I am just curious what members reported me, I don't really think someone was bothered by my posts. I am pretty sure this is just overzealous Numista team, am I right?"
MY UNDERSTANDING .
. Once your threads have been reported and that the breaches are confirmed, the rules apply.
. Since this breach is the first one, I reduced the ban from 30 to 10 and informed you.
. Your inputs in our PM discussion are not complying with the site policy (https://en.numista.com/forum/topic4505.html)
. You created a new account and opened this discussion in which you do not neither comply the afore mentioned policy.
MY COMMENTS.
I do not know who you are and where you do come from. I do not care and consider it as not relevant.
I just take into account your behaviour:
You consider that the policy should not apply to you because you are an old member. Is that your understanding of what the law is and should be ?
You insulted me, Pejounet, Xavier, other members and rest of the world without that any of us i) insulted you priorly and ii) replied to your insults. Who do you think you are ? You got this impunity (at least from myself) just to avoid getting involved in a senseless argument with an obviously immature person.
You demand to be moderated by English speaking moderators but are complaining when not moderated by french speaking moderators. Do you really know what you want ?
This thread is generating many reports; many members are reporting your behaviour that they judge as disrespectful, useless and sick. I did not moderate it to avoid steering your unhappiness but my patience and my acceptance are limited.
Last but not least, you are not only breaching forum and politeness policy but laws as well.... Please amend your behaviour.
First of all, I am not your friend. I didn't request to be treat different just because I am an old member of the forum. I asked for common sense since there is not a single thread that is fully compliant with sales policy. Many other members agreed that your ban was way beyond the scope of sales policy and you should revise it. Since you pretend that rules should be applied without discrimination I expect you to do it.
Now regarding the insults, if I say that you don't do your job is this insulting you? Or should I remember that you insulted me in a public post and then you (or some moderator) deleted the post.
QuoteYou demand to be moderated by english speaking moderators but are complaining when not moderated by french speaking moderators. Do you really know what you want ?
Now when you should act according with the rules you say "I am not a moderator for english forum". It is very convenient. So yes, my bitterness come from your lack of consistency. You could admit that you rushed when you decided to ban me but you thought that nothing will happens since you are a moderator, right?
My dear Andy, you'd make a great constitutional lawyer! Remember Clinton and his "it depends on your definition of "is" is."?
I haven't thus far commented because honestly I've never had any problems with any of the parties involved, quite the opposite in fact. I know very well where the accusations of bias stem from but those accused of it have always make plausible denials. Who's right? Everyone and no one I reckon.
So without getting into the specifics, it's clear that nobody's happy with the current state of things. I've got no axe to grind although I should state that Matt is a personal friend of mine IRL. So may I make a suggestion -
1. The original ban was unjustified. As one of those who argued long and passionately for the new sales rules, this was never how it was intended to be from my perspective at least. We all know who the undesirables are and Andy isn't among them. Remove the ban, do it today. Please VP. A light touch is called for here.
2. Once Andy's account is restored to it's pristine state he can delete his second account and all posts associated with it. No need for apologies or handshakes, make it right between you or just learn to ignore each other.
3. Recognise that "context" is important. (Is that the right word?) A known scammer returning with a new account - perma ban. A consistent problem case repeatedly causing problems for those charged with moderation - increasing bans and delete the offending posts. A well established member unwittingly breaking the rules - I reckon most of the sane, adult membership would have no problem in complying with a request to make some changes.
Let me speak plainly, I'm in full support of firm moderation. Discouraging those who use Numista only as a free alternative to eBay is a laudable thing. Stopping the dishonest in their tracks likewise. I reckon a useful rule of thumb ought to be - "will this action hurt or help the Numista community?" In this case the answer is, clear - we're losing a very decent and productive member in exchange for a marginal improvement in one section of the forum. There's no shame in getting it wrong my dear fellows, even less shame in fixing it. So no victory laps please folks.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Quote: "VieillePile"Good evening southern Gentleman,
As mentionned, Andy's ban was limited to 10 days, ending on Nov. 24th.
Ite missa est.
And good evening to you my dear fellow, I've missed our many conversations.
10 days is a lifetime in Numismatics!
Ultimately it's not about Andy. Matt's getting dragged into it now.... will a 10 day ban for one of the most widely respected collectors I know be coming? I hope you understand my concerns and that this is not an attempt to undermine you or the other moderators.
After a lot of thought I'm going to be getting rid of the less interesting parts of my collection, that's a lot of coins. It would make sense to offer it to the many Numista friends and contacts across the world who were such a big help in building it before looking at other venues. However, as we're both aware, the moment I make a post a small clique is going to scour it for the slightest error and demand a 30 day ban. I can even tell you the names but I know you are already fully aware of them. It's just Forum games VP. Do I really need such drama for the sake of a few Dollars?
If you would prefer to continue the discussion privately I'll be around most of the night listening to Tom Petty and entering a bunch of new coins in my collection / swap list. Much catching up to do.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Quote: "VieillePile". I PMed you the following:
"Dear Andy289, You did not comply with the sales policy , which led to complains and report from other members. You have been therefore banned for ten days."
In my mind this was the problem that kicked off the whole drama. A decent moderator would send a PM saying that the rules had been breached, explaining why and give the member an opportunity to fix the issue by removing the threads, or plead their case through PM rather than jumping straight to a ban.
may we know the usernames of the member that was so offended by the sales post they felt the need to report them?
I missed our chats too, but I have been rather busy as well. Since the point you are tackling is very sensitive (sales), I prefer to discuss it here.
But first of all: how do I moderate ? Usually, I just do not moderate on the english forum. I step in only when i) a post is reported and ii) the post is breaking some policy and iii) no native speaking moderator intervenes. I then decide if the post deserve the full sanction or a limited one. For spams / robots / other bullshit, the ban and warning depend on how many time I press the 0 key. 1000, 10000, more .... It happens that the behaviour is so ... inappropriate ? disproportionate ? that a long ban is given.
Applying the law is relatively easy: there are rules and a scale for the breaches. If a member complains, we apply the scale. Full stop. Attention, dismissed.
Regarding the sales .... The issue is rather tricky. For your knowledge, sales are forbidden on the french forum, to avoid any trouble, especially legal and tax ones.
What I would recommend, if you intend to sell and if the intended sale exceed the limits, ask priorly for greenlight to the webmaster (Xavier).
The reason for that is that Numista is a forum, not a market place, so that the site is not accountable for tax issues, nor for legal cases arising between members. We are neither businessmen nor lawyers and the site can not be involved in issues it does not control. I think that everybody can understand that.
@ pnightingale: sorry, I did forget one point: who is Matt and what happened to him ?
@ Neil: I consider that members are, or should be aware of the policy. Especially a senior one.
Law and order apply to everyone.
And if the wrongdoer is defending his behaviour by insulting the whole earth as a child ( and in doing so breaching other rules) ..... I really do not feel like pampering him and giving him a non deserved favour. It is as simple.
And by the way, I do not want to disclose the name of the members who reported the breach. I just can imagine the plot that could be constructed by "non constructive" members keen on quarrels.
@VieillePile So none is allowed to sell but you choose to ban only me. If none is allowed to sell then strip all these rules and write there a single rule: None is allowed to sell.
Quote: "VieillePile"Applying the law is relatively easy: there are rules and a scale for the breaches. If a member complains, we apply the scale. Full stop. Attention, dismissed.
I complained about all those not complying with the sales rules and you did nothing. What should I believe about you?
@Phil my friend, I am sorry for Matt, if you read all the posts you saw that my intention was to prove that moderators apply the rules based on mood. I have nothing against Matt, I already stated that from my perspective there is nothing wrong with his posts and would be a shame for this forum to punish him when none really complied with all sales rules.
Quote: "pnightingale "There's no shame in getting it wrong my dear fellows, even less shame in fixing it.
That's true sir and I did it many times. I never said I was right I just asked for common sense since these rules are not fully enforced but VieillePile is not man enough to admit when he is wrong and to fix his actions. Actually I have to apologize Matt for trapping him in this matter.
@Matt I am truly sorry my friend, I shouldn't throw your name when there was so many others not complying the rules.
Andy it is what it is life is too short to get upset over such silly things. I do what I can to be within the rules and if there is a issue I’m happy to delete my post. I appreciate your apology and hope everything works out for you.
Quote: "VieillePile"@ pnightingale: sorry, I did forget one point: who is Matt and what happened to him ?
Matt Yeakle, a friend of mine both on and off line for many years. Nothing has happened to him and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who is grateful for that small mercy. You'd like him.
P.S. No need to explain Andy, it's clear what you're trying to illustrate. I know Matt very well and while I wouldn't presume to speak for him I can say he's fo' sho' not one of those snowflake types.
P.P.S. If either of you (VP and Andy) are in the mood to accept an observation from someone who wishes nothing but the best for both of you....... Am I right in thinking that you're both communicating, however fluently, in a language that isn't your first and in text on top of that, which makes every more brutal than intended.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
@VieillePile you proved again how biased you are, so if the posts does not get reported you don't have to make sure the rules are respected?
What about these two rules?
3. Selling post minimum requirements:
- Good quality pictures clearly showing obverse and reverse of the coin for sale (not generic pictures).
- Weight, metal and diameter of the coin for sale.
- A fixed price.
4. A new sale involves the creation of a new thread.
Are these rules respected also? Based on what you decide which rule should be applied and which shouldn't?
Quote: "Myeackle"Andy it is what it is life is too short to get upset over such silly things. I do what I can to be within the rules and if there is a issue I’m happy to delete my post. I appreciate your apology and hope everything works out for you.
Matt
Thank you Matt. Not all of us had the same chance to delete the posts if they were wrong because we have overzealous moderators acting by their own desire not according to rules.
Hm I do see biased french moderators here, now that I think about it.
@Andy288 Ok, I would quit now, vp has already been gracious enough to remove 20 days from the ban. He may end up adding it back if you keep this up. Because a 10 day ban is much better than a month long ban.
Quote: "VieillePile"@ Neil: I consider that members are, or should be aware of the policy. Especially a senior one.
Law and order apply to everyone.
Like I said, a DECENT moderator wouldn’t have jumped straight to a ban, but we all know from the number of complaints against you that you aren’t one. Law and order does apply to everyone, but how you police it matters.
Do you pull over a driver doing 2 kph over the speed limit and give them a ticket and a warning? Or do you pull out your gun, drag them from the car, and take them back to the police station to work them over with a phone book?
If you can’t see that a direct ban without warning for a first time breach of an overbearing rule is not the way to go, then you shouldn’t be a moderator.
Looks like the long arm of the law reached out and smacked you, Andy!
All the way from across the pond!
Classic case of a little bit of power going straight to ones head.
We here in America call this the “Napoleon complex”
some people like to play judge, jury and executioner, works perfect in a dictatorship like this outfit.
If a longtime member, in good standings, with a flawless record of 5 Star ratings makes a mistake in posting a sales thread, one would think the authority would pm the member and tell him how to fix the problem and not right away ban him.
However, it was ever so gracious to reduce the ban from 30 to 10 right of the bat. Ain’t you a peach!
All this bullbutter could have been avoided using a little common sense and kindness.
I for one am glad some people here sell coins and wish more will in the future, and I don’t really care how they go about doing it. As long as they are a
longtime member with good ratings I buy their stuff
Some people ought to play cops and robbers in their own yard and leave us alone
I guess we are mostly tired of saying the same thing all over again.
Make up your minds, if you want rules to be fully respected, or of you want subjectively honorable members being respected and not outright banned. Because this oscillation between cheering to someone claiming one should get better treatment because he is an honorable member and then arguing that others are not being banned and rules not being precisely followed is confusing, saddening and laughable.
And yet again someone deleted my post just because didn't liked my open speech.
Original post:
For every decent person things are crystal clear. I don't need it but every comment here (except Jarcek and Sufur who tried hard to cover a mess) it's a confirmation that things goes wrong when someone has more power than can handle.
Quote: "Jarcek"I guess we are mostly tired of saying the same thing all over again.
Make up your minds, if you want rules to be fully respected, or of you want subjectively honorable members being respected and not outright banned. Because this oscillation between cheering to someone claiming one should get better treatment because he is an honorable member and then arguing that others are not being banned and rules not being precisely followed is confusing, saddening and laughable.
When you say "we are tired" I suppose you talk about you, VieillePile and few other Numista team members, right? I don't cheer people because they agree with me but common sense and honor. I feel in your post some kind of threat, is that?
Why was Andy banned and why wasn't he PM'd before the ban so that he could fix his mistake, which would be good moderating as mentioned by people like Neil.
Why are others not banned when also they don't obey all of the rules? Here it seems there is some sort of biased, based on idk what. Just wondering, but I haven't seen a clear answer to this question yet in two threads about this, only the standard answers, if they might be tired about giving the standard answers then give out a clear answer that actually answers the question asked for once then they could stop giving the standard answers they might possibly be so tired off.
If this is your excuse guys then you can leave Numista team. So if I swear you and none report my post it's fine? How could you said such a nonsense? Unbelievable. Did you ever heard about ex officio?
You keep twisting words. Whenever I see problematic post, I report it. When it is not reported, how mods can find what is wrong? I am quite sure they are not checking every post in every thread.
I told you all like 10 days ago that none fully comply with the rules. Did anyone checked that or they didn't read my posts? Don't you realize what embarrassing excuses you are saying just to cover a mess?
EDIT: When I was insulted by a moderator I didn't even had the chance to report that post because another moderator delete it without any consequences so in that particular case the ex-officio role worked pretty well. Do you still talk about me being caught? Ok, I got caught I am banned what about the others?
I am sorry Jarcek, but Andy is right. It's been mentioned in two threads. And a report makes it easy for moderators to see, but not the only way.
I would suggest you stop trying to make up silly excuses for those moderators you are trying to protect or something, I don't know why you are trying to do that, you are making yourself look silly with these silly excuses.
Like Andy said in his last post, has any sales post been looked at after these two threads have been posted about this? Surely a report cannot be the only way.
Even if you caught speeding and the cop sees your driving record is clean and without infractions, most likely and more often than not, you will get a warning and a talking to , that’s all.
Now, are there overzealous, do gooders that give the rest of the force a bad name, sure there are .
There will always be peckerwoods with a I’m in charge that makes me better than you attitude.
Andy felt like he was singled out unjustly and that’s all. End of story. Maybe VP should have just corrected him instead of banned him, but the Napoleon complex kicked in and bam bam without hesitation the ban was enforced.
should a member in good standing get better treatment than the jerk that opens an account today and sells tomorrow?
damn right he should !!!!
Regardless of your petty rules and laws, everything everywhere is looked upon in case by case base.
I cant believe I’m wasting my time explaining anything to you people anyway.
Btw, for a moderator to tell a member to “go have a cold one, with a friend if you have one” is a bunch of shit in my book.
Why the f..k don’t you stay your ass across the pond and mind your own bullbutter.
If you can dish out insults, better be a big boy Take some
Quote: "auctionking65"I cant believe I’m wasting my time explaining anything to you people anyway.
I am sure they all understand, however why would anyone admit their mistakes. Most people do not like admitting they better could've handled something differently and will either makes up a ton of excuses and reasons to defend their way of acting or just start ignoring when they don't know what to say anymore.
Did anyone checked that or they didn't read my posts? - I don't know. I am not a moderator. Don't you realize what embarrassing excuses you are saying just to cover a mess? No, I layed out possible solutions to you long ago. Do you still talk about me being caught? - Yes, you already wrote a hundred posts about it. I got caught I am banned what about the others? - I don't know. I am not a moderator.
To Salaction has any sales post been looked at after these two threads have been posted about this? - I don't know. I am not a moderator.
And yes, report is the only way.
To auctionking65
Sorry, I studied history and saw too many bad things happen when one group is deemed and treated better/worse than the other. I would call it a professional disagreement.
Edit to Andy: I won't report anyone - Then don't make posts about how mods are asleep and not controling and banning everyone else.
If you want to make a complaint about moderator, you can always write a PM to Xavier directly. Writing on the forum is somehow counter-effective, especially when post modifications are not saved.
Quote: "Jarcek"To Salaction
has any sales post been looked at after these two threads have been posted about this? - I don't know. I am not a moderator.
And yes, report is the only way.
So the fact that these other sales posts were mentioned in these threads here by Andy are not reason for mods to have a look at them?
So you say mods will only have a look at a thread if the official report button is used in the right top?
Quote: "Jarcek"I got caught I am banned what about the others? - I don't know. I am not a moderator.
And yet you defend them, not a single question for them but keep saying that I am wrong and they are right. You should consider Miranda warning, I am really sorry for you.
Quote: "Jarcek"Every mod can see a warning, not every mod could have read this post.
No, I am saying, that report button makes sure of that.
Alright so what you actually meant to say is that the report button is the only way to make sure. That seems fair. But I would've guessed with these threads and moderators already having read these threads as they posted in it they could've checked out other sales posts, but you wouldn't know as you are no moderator :)
Quote: "Jarcek"Every mod can see a warning, not every mod could have read this post.
No, I am saying, that report button makes sure of that.
Alright so what you actually meant to say is that the report button is the only way to make sure. That seems fair. But I would've guessed with these threads and moderators already having read these threads as they posted in it they could've checked out other sales posts, but you wouldn't know as you are no moderator :)
Well, yes, that is what I am trying to express here, obviously doing that wrong. I cannot check moderator work, or act as one, and forum which is controlled by moderators is really a bad place to argue with a moderator.
Quote: "Jarcek"Every mod can see a warning, not every mod could have read this post.
No, I am saying, that report button makes sure of that.
Alright so what you actually meant to say is that the report button is the only way to make sure. That seems fair. But I would've guessed with these threads and moderators already having read these threads as they posted in it they could've checked out other sales posts, but you wouldn't know as you are no moderator :)
Well, yes, that is what I am trying to express here, obviously doing that wrong. I cannot check moderator work, or act as one, and forum which is controlled by moderators is really a bad place to argue with a moderator.
But Andy mentioned he PM'd Xavier about the mods and he's not replying. So where should he complaint then about a moderator?
Xavier sent me a PM today. I don't know how much he read about this issues in these threads, basically he confirmed that these rules has been made to prevent abuses of new members. He also said that my ban expire today and I should use again my primary account. This is why I say that I don't know how much he is aware of these things. There must be some changes in Numista team behavior or the team itself if they are not willing to moderate without discrimination.
Quote: "Andy288"Xavier sent me a PM today. I don't know how much he read about this issues in these threads, basically he confirmed that these rules has been made to prevent abuses of new members. He also said that my ban expire today and I should use again my primary account. This is why I say that I don't know how much he is aware of these things. There must be some changes in Numista team behavior or the team itself if they are not willing to moderate without discrimination.
PS: and I am still banned
I made him a short story about what happened but I hope he is reading these threads so he can judge by himself not by my words. Still waiting for a response.
Jarcek......I can appreciate you studying history, and you are right by saying people have been treated unfairly and more favorable throughout the ages......rich get better treatment than the poor, pretty people get better treatment than the ugly...etc etc etc.
Thats not what this is about.......
Does a 30 year employee get better treatment than a 3 month employee ? For sure yes.
Does a cop treat a person with a good driving record better than the habitual speeder ? For sure yes
For sure, if the infraction was as small as Andy's, wouldn't you think a little short pm from the authorities would have been enough, fix it and let's do it right the next time. Not slap the guy with a ban right out of the gate, and than acting like he did the dude a favor by giving him 10 days instead of 30......what did you expect from Andy.....sit there and take it and say "thank you, massa''......I think not.
Now this bulls..t escalated to a level it never needed to get too, after all this is coin collecting, none of you change the world or help humankind in anyway shape or form, all that's happened is people got pissed off, stayed pissed, continue to be pissed and all of it could have been avoided if that overzealous trigger happy fellow would have used a little common sense.
Quote: "Andy288"(except Jarcek and Sufur who tried hard to cover a mess)
Hm... I had a feeling you would start grouping me in with your bad group as well. It seems that, whenever someone shows any opposition towards you, that is where you place them.
But it is alright. I do not care about your opinion towards me.
I did not respond to your original response to me because, by the time I saw it, the thread had already progressed well past it. I do not like reviving old posts. But while I am here, I am guessing you would still want some sort of response (and even if you do not want it, here it comes).
Quote: "Andy288"I am not just against french moderators but against any other Numista team member that can say what you just did above. Maybe they made a mistake? You're not in a position to make a judgment? I suppose you are a normal man that can read statements and evaluate them as true or false, many other members looking at this situation could say it was not right, even few Numista team members, but as you stated above they don't care.
Am I normal person who can make an evaluation? Probably. But the reason I do not is because I view my opinion as irrelevant. You know what you think. They know what they think. My opinion will not change that, and it is not my objective to change that.
Another reason why I say I will not form an opinion is because I do not know the whole story. Yes, I have read anything. But they are plenty of times where something was said and no proof was given. I will not base an opinion if there is nothing confirmable to base it on. It could all just be hearsay.
Quote: "Andy288"I never claimed that I was right. I made mistakes and I've been punished, they made mistakes and none is punished. Here is what it's unacceptable.
As far as I recall, you are correct: you never said you were right. But... I do not think anyone cares about what you did not say. You want the others to admit they were wrong, yet you yourself have never admitted that you were wrong.
Yes, I do see that you specifically said 'I made mistakes', but tone can be... difficult to read. Directly following that with a comment towards your opinions on their mistakes seems to negate the effect. Mutual admittion in a constructive way, I think, would be the most efficiant. Of course, that can be difficult because someone must initiate it. And even then, the other may side may not reciprocate the admittion.
I am not saying you have to admit anything. Just that, in their eyes, you were wrong. Like how, in your eyes, they are wrong.
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Regarding your last paragraph (the one questioning the sales policies): I could give my opinion on those policies. I could say which ones I agree with, which ones I disagree with, and how I would personally change the ones I disagree with to make them more efficiant.
However, regardless of what I say, I imagine you will format your response in such a way that continues to go against me. That is fine--do as you wish--but I have much better ways to spend my time.
Besides, this thread was not created to constructively discuss the sale policies. To me, it seems it was created to bump a topic that should have ended a long time ago. It seems it was created to aggravate.
@Sulfur I don't place you in any bad group, maybe tomorrow we will talk about coins like nothing happened because I am not vindictive. It was you own choice to step in posting in this thread nonsense and now you are saying I am not empowered to say anything else except my own opinion and even this opinion it's not really something strong since I don't know the whole facts because no proof was given, it could all just be hearsay. Really? No proof? The rules that are not enforced are hearsay?
Also now you are able to judge my tone when I say that I made mistakes and I was banned for them but you can't judge if the written rules are enforced or not. You are unbelievable. Yes, I made a mistake, what tone should I use when I say this?
And don't get me wrong, I am not against you but I cannot follow your logic and I am not the only one.
Quote: "Sulfur"Besides, this thread was not created to constructively discuss the sale policies.
Here you are right. I didn't start this thread to change the rules regarding sales but to get some answers why biased moderation is tolerated. And I haven't received a straight answer yet.
If I were, you would't be writing from second account anymore, but probably third, or fourth one.
, where do you take that audacity to say that? I have literally nothing to threaten you with. 
