Unusual Ware of legend?

Hello, May I please ask for advice on an 1847 Sovereign I purchased yesterday. The Reverse appears fine except for what appears to be a die crack between the IN in regina. My concern is the Obverse where the queen's head is in reasonable condition, the rim is good and raised but the legend [ especially the Gratia] is very worn almost unreadable. One side of the obverse [date moving right to GRATIA] is worse than the other. I though the rim protected the legend. Is this a weak strike, worn coin or counterfeit? Also how will this affect the grade of the coin? Thank you. Michael

Is that the colour? Looks more like copper in those images.
I think counterfeit. Compared to the images on here ...
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces5760.html
Some lettering is joined; some does not match with the beading position.
Will see what other members think.

Comparisons >



R joined to E
I joined to N
I points to a dot
: points to a space

Those are on your coin - on the other image they are different.
Though maybe different dies were used on the real coin, so differences occur.

With this animation I also see the Numista coin has a 101 die number below
the ribbon, but yours has no number there.

Thank for your feedback. Not a good photo for colour.
weight 7.95g
Diameter: 22.0 mn
Thickness: 1.4mm
Specific gravity: 17.28 g/cc
So it is gold. It is the same colour as the others I have.

I don't think there was a die number on the 1847 issue.

Michael

OK

Hello ZacUK. That animation of known shield over top of my coin is very clever. Nice little trick to know! How do you do that? Is there a website that shows how to do that? I'm impressed. Certainly a useful tool in fake detection.

I am obviously going to have to "talk" to the seller. Can you please confirm that you used the 1838-48 shield and not the later one 1848 plus [Seaby mention repositioned legend in shield 1848 and later].

Also can someone tell me please: Is the linking of letters as described in discussion of my coin a sure sign of fake, or can it happen in genuine coins, like a die crack. I am relatively new to coin collecting and have a lot to learn and appreciate the wealth of knowledge on this website.

I am still also interested in the loss of definition on the obverse legend. Any ideas?

Grateful for your help.

Michael

The coin is that one in the link in my first reply.

For the animation I use PhotoScape - it is a free download [from download.com].
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic28757.html#p239712
It has many features, including Animated GIF (on lower right on the circle image in that link).
I mainly use the Editor mainly, to crop circular coins from ordinary background so it then has
a white background - like I did before that animation. I also use it to brighten or rotate pictures,
and many other things. Most of the features in the program I have not used yet - it has all these >
Editor / Batch Editor / Page / Combine / Animated GIF / Print / Splitter /
Screen Capture / Color Picker / Raw Converter / Rename / Paper Print / Viewer
Lastly I recreate how I did the animation ...

On the left is the folder where the pictures are, then click on one and drag it into the main
box, then another picture - as many as needed. That is where the animation starts as shown
earlier (so cannot be seen as such in this still picture). The speed where it changes from one
picture to the next can be changed (on top right it is currently set at 0.62 Sec).

P.S. I used also used animation on this item in July last year ...
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic71820.html
and deliberately made a very fast speed, so the two sides could be merged.
As without it then either side (with the half letters) made no sense until shown
one after the other. Nice item!

Thank you very much for your help. I have use photoscape and a copy of an 1847 sovereign shield from Drake sterling ,and the shield of my coin and their coin are identical [their's is obviously better quality]. This photoscape is Great. The coin on numista is a shield minted after 1848 [re-positioned legend from 1838-48]. Die numbers were added 1863 [Seaby 3853] changing the shape of the wreath also.

With the coin having correct mass, dimensions and density, and an identical shield to an original, my questions are:

1. Is the linking of letters as described in discussion of my coin a sure sign of fake, or can it happen in genuine coins, like a die crack.
   
2. The Obverse where the queen's head is in reasonable condition, the rim OK and raised but the legend [ especially the Gratia] is very worn almost unreadable. One side of the obverse [date moving right to GRATIA] is worse than the other. I though the rim protected the legend. Is this a weak strike, worn coin or counterfeit? Also how will this affect the grade of the coin?
   

I really appreciate your help and the assistance with photoscape.

Michael

Yes, I see, here is an 1847 with yours ...

and I still wonder about the I and : pointing differently. And yes the die cracks,
if that is what they are, could happen to a genuine coin. Similarly the wear.
Will see what other members think. Glad you like PhotoScape.

Quote: "ZacUK"​ The coin is that one in the link in my first reply.
​
​For the animation I use PhotoScape - it is a free download [from download.com].
​https://en.numista.com/forum/topic28757.html#p239712
​ It has many features, including Animated GIF (on lower right on the circle image in that link).
​I mainly use the Editor mainly, to crop circular coins from ordinary background so it then has
​a white background - like I did before that animation. I also use it to brighten or rotate pictures,
​and many other things. Most of the features in the program I have not used yet - it has all these >
​Editor / Batch Editor / Page / Combine / Animated GIF / Print / Splitter /
​Screen Capture / Color Picker / Raw Converter / Rename / Paper Print / Viewer
​ Lastly I recreate how I did the animation ...
​
​ On the left is the folder where the pictures are, then click on one and drag it into the main
​box, then another picture - as many as needed. That is where the animation starts as shown
​earlier (so cannot be seen as such in this still picture). The speed where it changes from one
​picture to the next can be changed (on top right it is currently set at 0.62 Sec).

​Thanks for the explanation, I always wondered about it.

Do you also know how to superpose them in a still image?

Like this?
Image 1:

Image 2:

Superposed images:


Ole

Never tried that - I can make an animation of them. Maybe there is a way to
make the pictures a little transparent, then put one on the other.

Quote: "ZacUK"​ Never tried that - I can make an animation of them. Maybe there is a way to
​make the pictures a little transparent, then put one on the other.

​If I figure it out one day, I'll let you know, I have tried with powerpoint, but didn't find anything working!!