This weekend i had my very first time swaping/exchanging (its the first even outside of Numista), in person with a seller that i know from almost a year; the deal were 4 coins.
The next 4 coins were part of a group of 10 that i liked a month ago or so. That month ago, he offered me a bulk loot for 20€ (5,5kg!) and after a few seconds of dobut i agreed (i still playing around with it, and by now it was a very nice pursache).
It was in that moment when i asked him if he would like to swap coins, i told him that maybe i had some silvers that could interest him and he accepted more or less: "come back with them and we will see if we can do a deal" (dealing with him, I probably havent spent more than 100€, if that helps you to make an idea of our "relationship")
I came back this past Sunday, and we made the swap. I liked the terms of the swap but it was one of that kind that i have seen that no all user here like: silver for "normal" coins. This is exactly my case:
As i say in my profile, summarizing, i try to collect coins that i like visually and actually i fell in love with thoose 4, plus, the 4 coins i gave, i got them for a very very nice price (for instance, i got the Reich Marks almost at melt value despite of a nice XF condition... exceptional case).
So after this case, i would like to read some opinions:
Do you think it was a good deal?
For thoose who like, what are your "limits" when swaping silver vs no silver?
For thoose who dont like, why you think its not good idea to swap silver (of any composition) vs no silver (of any kind and quantity)?
The thing is that we will try to meet and make a new swap, again 1 Reich Mark 1938 B for 2 Kopecks - Pavel I EM - 1800. I see again a good deal but maybe i am wrong so i want to know... Also i am behing of a group of 150 silver coins with a little premium behind (for instance, if i pay 150€, probably i can make a profit of 50€), and of corse, i started to see a lot of posibilities swaping with this dealer (and some mates of him).
Sorry for the Bible, sorry silver stakers...
Se queres ca muller che queira, ten diñeiro na carteira
What is so special about silver???
I think in a swap numismatic-value is much more important than the silver-value.
Just now I cancelled a swap meanly because of this: I wanted somebodies silvercoin what was(acc. to Krause)
around $80,- he request my coin(non silver) from $160,-(Krause) with a lot of other coins among.
And al of a sudden he realised his coin was silver so he do not want to swap it...
Quote: "yvon"What is so special about silver???
I think in a swap numismatic-value is much more important than the silver-value.
Just now I cancelled a swap meanly because of this: I wanted somebodies silvercoin what was(acc. to Krause)
around $80,- he request my coin(non silver) from $160,-(Krause) with a lot of other coins among.
And al of a sudden he realised his coin was silver so he do not want to swap it...
Yvon, your example is just better and nailed the question with i came here.
I simply dont (not cant) understand it, but after a few months here, watching profiles of users that have helped me / I have helped, in ID section or users which i readed from post to learn, etc., i saw it was a common thing to read in their rules to swap "silver for silver" and so on... probably only saw like 1 or 2 users with something like "silver for 3 common or more".
That how i figured that "its something special with silver" but just didnt understant it.
Maybe it can be related to the "silver-value", in case tomorrow, only the silver its worth a fortune?
Se queres ca muller che queira, ten diñeiro na carteira
I state "silver for silver" in my profile and swap list simply to make clear that I want the option of that choice when negotiating a swap. If you don't have quality base metal coins and no silver coins to offer don't bother asking for my silver for your commons. Even junk silver has intrinsic value. I have had people literally ask for hundreds of dollars worth of silver coins when they had none to offer in return while their base metal coins were very easily obtained commons. I have no problem swapping silver coins for base metal coins as long as the end result is of equal value.
Well harryg you phrase "I have no problem swapping silver coins for base metal coins as long as the end result is of equal value" has all the sense to me, also as yvon stated.
But just for instance and i dont want to bother you in any way, if i read your profile "Silver will only be swapped with members who have silver to offer", i am technically out; maybe i could try to ask you if there is a posibility to do a swap in case i had any coin with high catalogue value (krause, NGC whatever) but... i will refer to the case of yvon to save keyboard...
I dont know why but, I think it will be more common to meet the case of yvon than your "common sense" harryg.
Se queres ca muller che queira, ten diñeiro na carteira
I ended up taking all my coins off for swap. I had some silver coins in my swap list, nothing valuable mind you, and I would constantly get swap requests from people who would load up all the silver coins and then have literally nothing of value or anything I even desired in their swap list. Then a lot of them would get aggressive because I didn’t want to swap with them.
I don’t care much about swapping silver coins. I actually buy hundreds of silver coins for spot out of my local coin stores bucket. No body wants them but me. Many of them are in very good condition. I started picking them up for the purpose of swapping. The bad experiences with swapping just turned me off.
Quote: "jadejackal"I ended up taking all my coins off for swap. I had some silver coins in my swap list, nothing valuable mind you, and I would constantly get swap requests from people who would load up all the silver coins and then have literally nothing of value or anything I even desired in their swap list.
Quote: "klei92"Well harryg you phrase "I have no problem swapping silver coins for base metal coins as long as the end result is of equal value" has all the sense to me, also as yvon stated.
But just for instance and i dont want to bother you in any way, if i read your profile "Silver will only be swapped with members who have silver to offer", i am technically out; maybe i could try to ask you if there is a posibility to do a swap in case i had any coin with high catalogue value (krause, NGC whatever) but... i will refer to the case of yvon to save keyboard...
I dont know why but, I think it will be more common to meet the case of yvon than your "common sense" harryg.
The point is that those who do not have base metal coins of real numismatic value must have at least some silver coins to offer for any consideration at all. Value is value whether it is silver or numismatic or a combination of the two.
Quote: "jadejackal"I ended up taking all my coins off for swap. I had some silver coins in my swap list, nothing valuable mind you, and I would constantly get swap requests from people who would load up all the silver coins and then have literally nothing of value or anything I even desired in their swap list. Then a lot of them would get aggressive because I didn’t want to swap with them.
I don’t care much about swapping silver coins. I actually buy hundreds of silver coins for spot out of my local coin stores bucket. No body wants them but me. Many of them are in very good condition. I started picking them up for the purpose of swapping. The bad experiences with swapping just turned me off.
I did it soon after joining. I got 12+ requests for my 1834 platinum 3 roubles. One request even came along with a message offering me 10 base metal or 5 silver coins for it and telling me what a generous offer this was and I should be grateful.
I don't think the numista swap system is setup to handle coins of any value.
You'd be amazed at how many times someone would select a bunch of ancient and medieval coins off my swaplist, I'd select a few common silver coins I don't really need just to make the swap work only to get the "Hahaha! I will not trade my silver coins for your base metal coins! Select something else.". Of course the rest of the persons swaplist consists of common 20th century coins that sell for a few dollars per kilo but I guess trading a 20$ ancient coin for a 10 cent junk bin coin is considered fair because they're both base metal.
I fully understand people that only collect silver coins wanting to trade them for other silver coins however for someone that collects all metals the rule is in my opinion pointless. It's not like silver has some large monetary value, a George V Florin which is a decent silver coin only has a melt value of around 6$. Even if silver skyrockets and triples its value that will still not be much. On the other hand a rare base metal coin with historical significance will always be a valuable coins since its value is its history not its metal.
P.S. I have a bunch of silver peace dollars, 5 reichsmark, 5 corona, MT thalers etc. that are not on my swap list and I'm willing to trade any of them for medieval copper coins minted in Croatian coastal cities. The coins in question are small bronze coins with a weight of just a few g. and I'll gladly trade large silver coins for them.
I collect and deal in ancient Roman coin. In case you're looking for affordable ancient coins or need any help with the coins you already have send me a message.
The collecting values of all collectables can be very fickle. Items that sell for huge values a decade ago can become no longer popular to collect and then the sale prices tank (if you want to know what that looks like, just ask someone who has collected stamps for over 20 years).
If you have coins of precious metals then at least you'll always have the bullion value of the coins to fall back on.
Quote: "klei92"Well harryg you phrase "I have no problem swapping silver coins for base metal coins as long as the end result is of equal value" has all the sense to me, also as yvon stated.
But just for instance and i dont want to bother you in any way, if i read your profile "Silver will only be swapped with members who have silver to offer", i am technically out; maybe i could try to ask you if there is a posibility to do a swap in case i had any coin with high catalogue value (krause, NGC whatever) but... i will refer to the case of yvon to save keyboard...
I dont know why but, I think it will be more common to meet the case of yvon than your "common sense" harryg.
The point is that those who do not have base metal coins of real numismatic value must have at least some silver coins to offer for any consideration at all. Value is value whether it is silver or numismatic or a combination of the two.
This 100%.
I’ve been inputting my collection for that last few months and I was marking things as trade as I went. However, as soon as I put in silver, I was deluged with trade requests from people who wanted all my silver but only had common base metal coins (the kind that you could buy by the kilo) in exchange. I had to turn my trades off, and — to be honest — I’m slightly afraid to turn them back on.
The thing is, 90%+ of my collection is silver, but I also love an interesting base metal coin.
But a trade should always be about value. On one hand, don’t ask me to trade you my pristine ASE for your average circulation common base metal coin. Only a moron would make that trade. On the other hand, if you have a valuable base metal coin that I want, I will GLADLY send you some silver of equal value.
For example, recently I did an in person trade where I received an AU example of an Ekaterina II 5 kopeks (51.2g of copper) in exchange for about 150g of silver...and I was thrilled to do so!
Quote: "jadejackal"I ended up taking all my coins off for swap. I had some silver coins in my swap list, nothing valuable mind you, and I would constantly get swap requests from people who would load up all the silver coins and then have literally nothing of value or anything I even desired in their swap list. Then a lot of them would get aggressive because I didn’t want to swap with them.
I don’t care much about swapping silver coins. I actually buy hundreds of silver coins for spot out of my local coin stores bucket. No body wants them but me. Many of them are in very good condition. I started picking them up for the purpose of swapping. The bad experiences with swapping just turned me off.
I did it soon after joining. I got 12+ requests for my 1834 platinum 3 roubles. One request even came along with a message offering me 10 base metal or 5 silver coins for it and telling me what a generous offer this was and I should be grateful.
I don't think the numista swap system is setup to handle coins of any value.
Ha ha, I feel better knowing I wasn't the only one. If the famous oggy even had to deal with this, who am I to complain?
To me, as long as both parties are happy with the coins offered, irrespective of rarity, metal ect then the deal is done.
As reading above, some collectors want everything for next to nothing, where others, and I genuinely mean the more switched on collector, fully understands the value of wanted and swap coinage.
It still goes back to the swap partners being happy with what they will receive for what they have agreed to send.
At first, i wasnt sure about if it was a good idea, but now i begin to conclude that its not that bad to do a swap of siver for non silver, when the values or both swapers are okey with it.
But aslo, neilithicman got a really good point on the subject that i don't want to despise and i think it has its importance... but by the way, i dont think that yvon's example could fit in that vision.
Se queres ca muller che queira, ten diñeiro na carteira
Some really great responses that truly echo my sentiments. I’m glad to trade silver (or gold for that matter) for items of similar value regardless of their content. The fact that they are precious metal doesn’t matter, but I’m not trading “quality coins,” which most precious metal ones are, for junk bin material, even though I love junk bin stuff. And I have also found if you don’t qualify “silver for silver” or something similar you will flooded with requests that want nothing but the silver and really offer nothing equivalent in return.
"Value" is tricksy and should not be considered the same as "price". Catalogs are probably the most useful guide but they don't take into account liquidity or demand.
Perhaps an example to illustrate what I'm talking about - If I have a low grade Morgan dollar worth roughly $20 and you have a base metal coin with a $30 catalog price, a straightforward swap would seem to be to my advantage. But not so fast! If I need quick cash I can take my silver dollar to my local coin dealer and walk away in minutes with $15 just for it's silver content. You just can't do that with base metal coins. You'd be very lucky to get $10 and if the dealer senses you're motivated to sell urgently, he's going to really low ball you.
If your cash needs are not urgent you could try eBay but the same thing applies. Apart from collectors there's the "melt" crowd, thousands and thousands of bidders looking to score cheap silver. They are not going to let a silver dollar slip by at $5. However the only people looking for a $30 base metal coin are collectors and most of those are only looking for a particular country / period. It's very possible you're going to end up with a single bid on your $0.99 starting price.
Which brings us to the third leg of the stool, opportunity. Let's use the same two coins above for consistency. Like many of you I'm at my happy place when I'm wrist deep in a 10/$1 junk box and also like many of you I've found plenty of high priced coins. What I've never found is a 150 year old silver dollar. So there's always the chance that I can fill the key date gaps in my base metal albums at little cost - which is all part of the fun right? I reckon it's possible to find an occasional silver dime in a junk bin or a Coinstar reject tray but if that's your collecting strategy you're doomed to failure.
So that's the case for single coins with a roughly similar numismatic price ticket, the picture becomes even more distorted when multiple coins are being offered. My $100 single coin may have the same PRICE as your 200 modern ex circulation coins but in terms of VALUE they're not even close. Don't believe me? Bag them up and take them to your 10 nearest coin dealers. Nine will refuse them without a second glance but if you're very lucky the tenth might offer you a couple of bucks because his junk bin is getting low. In other words, their combined PRICE might be $100 but their actual VALUE is little to none. Conversely my single $100 coin could quite easily be turned into an instant $50 or even $75 on a good day.
To be clear, I'm open to swap silver coins for humble coppers and vice versa and I'm always happy to accept junk silver as an alternative to cash. But in all cases I try hard to arrive at a point where value is taken into account. So while I don't waste much time dealing with opportunistic silver stackers I don't, as a matter of general principle, let inexperienced collectors shoot themselves in the foot either. If you have cash or silver then you're in the driving seat and if anyone tells you different, walk away.
In short, they're your coins to do with as you see fit, I'm not here to tell you otherwise. But what I am saying is that for your own sake and for that of your long term reputation you should consider price to be the starting point and value to be the finish line when considering swaps and trades.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Quote: "pnightingale""Value" is tricksy and should not be considered the same as "price".
don't waste much time dealing with opportunistic silver stackers
If you have cash or silver then you're in the driving seat and if anyone tells you different, walk away.
I quote few statements Phil that could be framed for this thread. Well said sir.
You can swap silver for non-silver as long as you know your stuff and the swap is fair for both sides.
Quote: "pnightingale""Value" is tricksy and should not be considered the same as "price". Catalogs are probably the most useful guide but they don't take into account liquidity or demand.
Perhaps an example to illustrate what I'm talking about - If I have a low grade Morgan dollar worth roughly $20 and you have a base metal coin with a $30 catalog price, a straightforward swap would seem to be to my advantage. But not so fast! If I need quick cash I can take my silver dollar to my local coin dealer and walk away in minutes with $15 just for it's silver content. You just can't do that with base metal coins. You'd be very lucky to get $10 and if the dealer senses you're motivated to sell urgently, he's going to really low ball you.
If your cash needs are not urgent you could try eBay but the same thing applies. Apart from collectors there's the "melt" crowd, thousands and thousands of bidders looking to score cheap silver. They are not going to let a silver dollar slip by at $5. However the only people looking for a $30 base metal coin are collectors and most of those are only looking for a particular country / period. It's very possible you're going to end up with a single bid on your $0.99 starting price.
Which brings us to the third leg of the stool, opportunity. Let's use the same two coins above for consistency. Like many of you I'm at my happy place when I'm wrist deep in a 10/$1 junk box and also like many of you I've found plenty of high priced coins. What I've never found is a 150 year old silver dollar. So there's always the chance that I can fill the key date gaps in my base metal albums at little cost - which is all part of the fun right? I reckon it's possible to find an occasional silver dime in a junk bin or a Coinstar reject tray but if that's your collecting strategy you're doomed to failure.
So that's the case for single coins with a roughly similar numismatic price ticket, the picture becomes even more distorted when multiple coins are being offered. My $100 single coin may have the same PRICE as your 200 modern ex circulation coins but in terms of VALUE they're not even close. Don't believe me? Bag them up and take them to your 10 nearest coin dealers. Nine will refuse them without a second glance but if you're very lucky the tenth might offer you a couple of bucks because his junk bin is getting low. In other words, their combined PRICE might be $100 but their actual VALUE is little to none. Conversely my single $100 coin could quite easily be turned into an instant $50 or even $75 on a good day.
To be clear, I'm open to swap silver coins for humble coppers and vice versa and I'm always happy to accept junk silver as an alternative to cash. But in all cases I try hard to arrive at a point where value is taken into account. So while I don't waste much time dealing with opportunistic silver stackers I don't, as a matter of general principle, let inexperienced collectors shoot themselves in the foot either. If you have cash or silver then you're in the driving seat and if anyone tells you different, walk away.
In short, they're your coins to do with as you see fit, I'm not here to tell you otherwise. But what I am saying is that for your own sake and for that of your long term reputation you should consider price to be the starting point and value to be the finish line when considering swaps and trades.
I like your statement. Myself trade silver coins for gold coins same value.
Year 1888 2 mark Wilhelm 1, or Year 1888 5 mark Wilhelm 1; Would swap for German gold Coins same value.
Quote: "yvon"What is so special about silver???
I think in a swap numismatic-value is much more important than the silver-value.
Just now I cancelled a swap meanly because of this: I wanted somebodies silvercoin what was(acc. to Krause)
around $80,- he request my coin(non silver) from $160,-(Krause) with a lot of other coins among.
And al of a sudden he realised his coin was silver so he do not want to swap it...
I wonder why would you agree $160 for $80 at first..
Quote: "yvon"What is so special about silver???
I think in a swap numismatic-value is much more important than the silver-value.
Just now I cancelled a swap meanly because of this: I wanted somebodies silvercoin what was(acc. to Krause)
around $80,- he request my coin(non silver) from $160,-(Krause) with a lot of other coins among.
And al of a sudden he realised his coin was silver so he do not want to swap it...
I wonder why would you agree $160 for $80 at first..
There is not so much to wonder about; I am not a dealer and the 160,- coin was not needed for my collection but the 80,- was something I really wanted. I do not see what is strange with that. And I did not say I paid 160,- for the coin, Krause said that is the value...
Quote: "pnightingale""Value" is tricksy and should not be considered the same as "price". Catalogs are probably the most useful guide but they don't take into account liquidity or demand.
Perhaps an example to illustrate what I'm talking about - If I have a low grade Morgan dollar worth roughly $20 and you have a base metal coin with a $30 catalog price, a straightforward swap would seem to be to my advantage. But not so fast! If I need quick cash I can take my silver dollar to my local coin dealer and walk away in minutes with $15 just for it's silver content. You just can't do that with base metal coins. You'd be very lucky to get $10 and if the dealer senses you're motivated to sell urgently, he's going to really low ball you.
If your cash needs are not urgent you could try eBay but the same thing applies. Apart from collectors there's the "melt" crowd, thousands and thousands of bidders looking to score cheap silver. They are not going to let a silver dollar slip by at $5. However the only people looking for a $30 base metal coin are collectors and most of those are only looking for a particular country / period. It's very possible you're going to end up with a single bid on your $0.99 starting price.
Which brings us to the third leg of the stool, opportunity. Let's use the same two coins above for consistency. Like many of you I'm at my happy place when I'm wrist deep in a 10/$1 junk box and also like many of you I've found plenty of high priced coins. What I've never found is a 150 year old silver dollar. So there's always the chance that I can fill the key date gaps in my base metal albums at little cost - which is all part of the fun right? I reckon it's possible to find an occasional silver dime in a junk bin or a Coinstar reject tray but if that's your collecting strategy you're doomed to failure.
So that's the case for single coins with a roughly similar numismatic price ticket, the picture becomes even more distorted when multiple coins are being offered. My $100 single coin may have the same PRICE as your 200 modern ex circulation coins but in terms of VALUE they're not even close. Don't believe me? Bag them up and take them to your 10 nearest coin dealers. Nine will refuse them without a second glance but if you're very lucky the tenth might offer you a couple of bucks because his junk bin is getting low. In other words, their combined PRICE might be $100 but their actual VALUE is little to none. Conversely my single $100 coin could quite easily be turned into an instant $50 or even $75 on a good day.
To be clear, I'm open to swap silver coins for humble coppers and vice versa and I'm always happy to accept junk silver as an alternative to cash. But in all cases I try hard to arrive at a point where value is taken into account. So while I don't waste much time dealing with opportunistic silver stackers I don't, as a matter of general principle, let inexperienced collectors shoot themselves in the foot either. If you have cash or silver then you're in the driving seat and if anyone tells you different, walk away.
In short, they're your coins to do with as you see fit, I'm not here to tell you otherwise. But what I am saying is that for your own sake and for that of your long term reputation you should consider price to be the starting point and value to be the finish line when considering swaps and trades.
outstanding piece of work Phil! All new collectors need to read this before they are allowed to swap.
I wish I had understood this when I first came here...
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Quote: "AshsCollectablesStore"I do hate it when people make swap offers and select all my rare stuff and then only have a few junk coins in their own swap list.
