Hello,
I've got questions about 6 coins which I got from eBay. 4 of them seem to be silver and the other ones from copper. 2 of them should be a 1 Jiao coin ( Y#326) the other one a 2 Jiao (Y#327). The other silver one has the same size as the 2 Jiao coin so it should be something similar. But the copper coins are not clear. One has a date 1938 on it. Do you know an expert for these coins ??
Kind regards
Marcus
Well I'm an expert on Chinese coins so let me help you out.
So, before you read this, check if there is actually silver content. Otherwise they're all counterfeit.
None of them are jiao. The top middle one is a 5 Yuan, the right top and bottom left are 1 Yuan, and the bottom right is a Kuang-hsu tael. Taels are probably one of the most counterfeited Chinese silver coins from the imperial era, so please check for silver content first.
I'll help you out with the copper ones. The top left one is either a pattern or a counterfeit, and the bottom one is a 20 cash. Although it may look real, the text looks enboldened which signifies that it may be a modern counterfeit. Could you take a high-resolution of the 20 cash?
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
Hmmm ?? The coins haven't arrived in Germany. So I took the pictures from the seller. Now I think for this price they cannot be real. So, if I understand you right, the 2 same coins should be 1 Juan ( Dollar) coins and the big one a 5 Juan coin and the other one a teal. This seems to be a lot of silver. I think it's not true. When they arrive I'll measure them and I've got a very precise electronic scale (0.1 mg). What could the counterfeits be made of ?? Copper and then coated with silver galvanicly ?? I'll have to wait... and then I'll punish someone out there... if they are counterfeit.
I don't want anyone to get in trouble, but they're possibly fake.
Well, I don't want to disappoint, but the one that says 5 Dollars (the biggest one) is certainly a fake because, although it looks the most real, a 5 dollar coin wasn't issued in the first year of the republic. The top left one is fake for sure because 10 Cash wasn't that big. I think it's trying to imitate a pattern coin. The middle "copper" coin is fake cause the details are too fine, especially on the reverse. Whenever you see a dark copper Chinese coin with bright and dull surfaces, they're fake.
The bottom left dollar, known as the "Fat Man" dollar looks the most real, to be honest. However, there were no dollar coins issued in 1920.
Get a better picture when you get them. How much did you pay?
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
The bottom left? That's tarnish. But it's certainly fake cause no dollar coins were issued that year.
It's not about "Does it look like silver?" but "Does it look real?" Silver dollars and taels are probably the most counterfeited coins in the world, let alone Chinese coins. If you showed me some 1/2 dollars, 2 Jiao, or 1 Jiao, it's more likely to be real because they're cheaper in the market so they're not commonly copied.
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
Probably Chinese copper coins and silver dollars are some of the most faked coins. It's not just "it might be fake" but "it is / isn't fake" and from what I see, most of them, if not all of them, including the copper coins, are fake.
Oh and sorry if this kinda puts you down a little bit. Don't buy Imperial and Republican Chinese coins unless you know what you're doing.
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
As a Chinese, I am shame to tell you that all 6 coins looks like counterfeit. No offence, mercator.
SmartOne is an expert on Chinese coins absolutely. Most of his opinion, I agree.
The top middle one is a 5 yuan. It is never issued except a trial golden coin in 1914 (3) with rare mintage.So all of 5 Yuan of silver Fat man(The president named Yuan Shikai ) are fabricated by folk workshop.
The two copper ones are fake as SmartOne said. The top left is a pattern coin and the middle one looks like a real one but too perfect details. If the dragon has all squama like the picture, it will cost you a lot of money even more than the silver ones.
The bottom right one is a Tibet tael made in Kuang-hsu. It is fake from the printed character.
Last is the two Fatman One Yuan silver coins. I have small different opinion with Smartone. These coins is offcial issued in 3,8,9,10 (1914,1919.1920,1921) with 39mm, 26.6 gram and 89% Silver 11% copper. For legend, year 8,9,10 will have one more Chinese charactor after year number. Before 1929, still a lot were minted marking 3 (1914). So it is common for you guys to see 1914. But for Year 9(1920), the One yuan silver coin is much less than Year 3(1914). And two different kinds of details show on the bust. One kind is Yuan Shikai has a bigger ear(compare with common ones),the other kind is the president with an open collar which is more rare. None of yours meet them.
By the way, some advice for you.
a- All silver coins from your picture looks like fake from your photos. However, it still could be real silver and might be minted by folk. So maybe still worth something.
b- One in ten chinese coins(Imperial and Republican Chinese) in Chinese market is fake,to say nothing of Ebay.
Value in Chinese market for you reference.
Really common copper coin for Republican Chinese usually cost 5 to 20 dollars.
Common Fat man silver One Yuan coin 1914 cost at least 100 dollars.
A fake Fat man silver One Yuan coin(Real Silver) cost less than 45 dollar.
A fake fat man one yuan coin(Copper/LEAD/most is cupronickel) cost less than 1 dollar (3-6 Chinese Yuan).
I have enjoyed this discussion.
I am not an expert on Chinese coins, but tend to agree with bunnycute. Probably, all fake.
I spent a lot of time in Shanghai and I bought about 50-60 pieces of these "fat man yuan", and taels, and mandareens and all silver looking, trade coinage looking things for a price, which justifies they are fake. I knew that up front, but I thought it is interesting, still.
Back home, I have laid all of them down on my desk, and approached them with a magnet... 75% of them jumped up. ... the rest are faked differently.
That was a very thorough explanation and you are simply tops. I believe everything you say, except how copper Republican coins are usually 5 to 20 bucks. I usually get 10 Cash for a buck and a half and 20 cash for two. 100 Cash and 200 Cash are a different story.
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
Yes, you are right. What I said is too absolute. I just mentioned a Chinese market price(Which with a profit for seller), and I should have add a 10 cash as standard. A common copper Republican coins better than VF always sold for 15-40 RMB. If for worse ones,it always about 5 RMB. Sorry for confusing you.
BTW, I just start collecting world coins(only for Chinese coins before years), so this is a platform for me to learn more.
Cause an RMB is about 15 cents, right? That was last time I checked.
And good that you started collecting! Maybe you can help me work on China - Empire and China - Republic on Numista because the old cast cash issues need some work, especially prior to the 1600's.
Kenny
- Verifying your Asian and British-territorial coins everyday with the best quality photos and the best information.
I am just an amateur in China. I have lots of friends selling coins here. So I learn a lot. I still have full time job here. When available, I am willing to help you on Chinese coins.
Here are links to the cleaned "coins". Yes I've been brutal in cleaning them. First I cleaned them with Aceton ( propanone) and a Q-tips. I didn't know that real tarnish could be wiped away so easy !! cry !! 3 coins are definitely counterfeited. All "fat man" silver dollars are false. Two of them ( the 1 dollar) are magnetic. They seem to be made of iron covered with silver. Silver does never produce brown tarnish like this. It's rust. The bigger one is made of brass covered with siver. So it's not magnetic but I could wipe away the silver coating easily.
There are 3 coins remaining. And therefore I need a little help. What could or should be a 10 cash coin, made of brass, not copper, although it's written TAI-CHING-TI-KUO COPPER COIN on it. But it looks too perfect for an old coin. It has scratches on it and some parts seem to be wiped out. But the edge is plain and almost perfect. The other brass coin looks more real. It looks like it has really been in circulation. But again the edge is perfectly, like new. Perhaps it's not a coin, because I couldn't find anything similar. It could be a medaille or token.
The last one which could be a teal or silver dollar is very strange. I need help in decyphering the Chinese signs. A pictures of real taels I found in the net look different. But it seems to be silver. The shine, it's not magnetic of course, the "sound". If it's false it should be heavily coated with silver. I polished it on one place and couldn't wipe away a siver coating. Perhaps it is real silver. It weights 27,78g and has a diameter of 45,3mm and the edge is reeded. I've real old silver dollars which look similar. In the 90's silver was not so expensive. So it could be false but made of silver. In this case the seller would bite himself.
So.. I'll stop now and here are some links to the photos I've taken. My camera is not very good. I can take better photos later. For comparison I put a 2 Euro piece and a 10 DM (625er Ag) nearby.
Sorry for reply a little late, I am busy on working these days. I see mercator did a lot to these "coins", so I also find lots of documents on them. And now, I will tell you the stories on the remaining three "coins".
1- The Hubei 20 Cash.
It was never officially issued, only have a few specimens. Most are destroyed, if you have a real one, it will cost at least 5,000 Yuan RMB.
2- 1936(Y25) 10 Cash with wheats around
This one never officially issued too, only have a few few specimens by Tianjin Mint. A real one cost at least 50,000 Yuan RMB.
3- Tibet 1 Tael
This one is a really rare coin. A real one was made by England mint as a specimen only, never offcially issued too. And if you have a real one, it cost 200,000 Yuan RMB.
A real one is 45 mm diameter and 37.2 gram in weigh.
I have a look in Chinese market, there are two kind of counterfeit both made in Henan province.
One is 26-27 gram, which I think is the same with yours. It is made by one kind of cupronickel (We called TIBET Silver, lots of highly counterfeit of Chinese coins are made of these materials). And usually cost you 6 Yuan RMB to gain it.
The other is about 37 gram. It made of 90% Silver and 10% Copper, and it will cost you 220 Yuan RMB.
Most Chinese counterfeit coins are quantity production in Henan, even copper ones - and sales in Chinese market in a very low price in legal (They will tell you that is counterfeit, just for fun).
all "coins" are faked. I've seen a real 10 cash copper coin very similar to mine, which went over for 120 €. Oh these Chinese forgers. I could .. them all.. and me for my stupidity. But if these coins are counterfeited in so big quantities, why don't they get punished? Behavior like this destroys the reputation. But Chinese seem to counterfeit anything. Upps now I get punished. But this really destroys reputation and real good quality has it's price. Hope all 5 Yuan silver coins are real.
You can buy "re prints" of German coins but they are normally marked as reprint. For instance the real 4 first 5 DM silver coins have a high value. But you can get them as a good remake. Next time I will look very carefully if I'm bidding on rare coins. A qualified dealer will never risk to lose his good reputation !!
Thanks
Marcus
Sorry for confusing you. 
Upps now I get punished. But this really destroys reputation and real good quality has it's price. Hope all 5 Yuan silver coins are real.
