Tokens guidelines need seriuos update [solved]

Hi

This is the site: https://en.numista.com/numisdoc/token-names-guidelines-248.html

There are many more varieties as stated on this site, eg:

• Shopping cart tokens
  
• Beer tokens
  
• Casino tokens (I would add also new currency as "Casino chips")
  
• Co-operative tokens
  
• Counter tokens
  
• Encased tokens
  
• Internment Camp tokens
  
• Live Action Role Play tokens
  
• Masonic tokens
  
• Merchandise tokens
  
• Military tokens
  
• MInes and Forges tokens
  
• Pharmacy tokens
  
• Promotional Gas tokens
  
• Public swimming pool tokens
  
• Religious tokens
  
• Replicas tokens
  
• Souvenir tokens
  
• Spielgeld tokens
  
• Spielmarke tokens
  
• Utility tokens
  
• Wage tokens
  

and so on...

With some countries there is a possibility "Play tokens", which is esentially the same as "Spielgeld tokens" and "Spielmarke tokens".

This list could also be set up in same order as list of token types are displayed when adding new coin/token, see field "Currency".

For each token type a short explanation (two three sentences) could be added with two or three links to typical coins/tokens in this group. In case of Numisdoc entry, eg. Canadian local dollars, a link to such site could be added. See: https://en.numista.com/numisdoc/canadian-local-trade-tokens-184.html.

*********************

Furthermore list of token types (on link below) seems quite good and should probably also be implemented to some extent here on Numista for German tokens, as well as other countries where it would seem clever to do the same. We could use a native German to pinpoint the exact names in English language (with further clarification what goes in each category/type). I am familiar with or rather understand only half of 33 categories below, but at the same time I admit, that I probably cannot translate it into English in its best meaning.

From "Marken aller Art" (see 18 & 19) we have already separated many other categories like Pharmacy tokens, LARP tokens, Public swimming pool tokens etc. On the other side, categories like "German Notgeld" are already covered pretty good and would probably be a bad idea to transfer these coins to token category.

LINKs: https://wertmarkenforum.de/kataloge-opalka
(https://wertmarkenforum.de/downloads-wmf)

1: Städtenotgeld-Münzen(Deutschland 1916–1923 und 1945)
2: Kriegsgefangenen-Lager-Gelddes Ersten Weltkriegs, private Ausgaben(Deutschland 1914–1918) & 3: Kriegsgefangenen-Lager-Gelddes Ersten Weltkriegs, staatliche Ausgaben(Deutschland 1914–1918)
4: Briefmarken-Kapselgeld(Deutschland)
5: Marken aus den Deutschen Kolonien(1884–1918)
6: Gas-und Strom-Marken(Deutschland)
=> should be covered within "Utility Tokens"? >> gas marke tokens etc.
7: Fahr-Marken(Deutschland)
=> covered within "Transit Tokens"
8: Marken Deutscher Konsumvereine
9: Marken Österreichischer Konsumvereine
10: Marken Schweizerischer Konsumvereine
11: Marken militärischer Einrichtungen(Deutschland)
12: Marken von Kriegervereinen(Deutschland)
13: Marken Deutscher Marine-Schiffe
14: Private Marken mit Wertzeichen(Deutschland, Orte A–Z) & 15: Private Marken mit Wertzeichen(Deutschland, ohne Ortszuweisung)
16: Bier-Marken(Deutschland, Orte A–Z) & 17: Bier-Marken(Deutschland, ohne Ortszuweisung)
=> covered within "Beer Tokens"
18: Marken aller Art(Deutschland, Orte A–Z) & 19: Marken aller Art(Deutschland, ohne Ortszuweisung)
=> partially covered deeper with "Live Action Role Playing Tokens"
=> partially covered deeper with "Public Swimming Pool Tokens"
=> partially covered deeper with "Pharmacy Tokens"
=> partially covered deeper with "Telephone Tokens"
=> all tokens within category of German "Tokens"
20: Deutschsprachige Marken aus dem Ausland(u.a. aus Österreich, der Schweiz, dem Elsass, aus Schlesien, Böhmen und Rumänien etc.)
21: Marken aus der Zeit der Weimarer Republik(1918–1933) und des Deutschen Reiches(1933–1945)
22: Marken von US-Einrichtungen in Deutschland(1945–2009)
23: Spenden-Markenaus der Bundesrepublik Deutschland (nach 1949)
24: Marken aus der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik(DDR / 1948–1989)
25: Automaten-Marken(Deutschland)
=> covered within "Automatic Tokens" (would probably need a further segregation)
26: Wertmarken für Autowaschanlagen(Deutschland)
=> covered within "Car Wash Tokens"
27: Wertmarken für Tankautomaten(Deutschland)
28: Reklame-Marken(Deutschland)
=> probably covered with "Advertising Tokens"
29: Kirmes-Fahr-Chips(Deutschland)
30: Einkaufswagen-Chips(Deutschland 1992–2010)
=> covered within "Shopping Cart Tokens"
31: Müll-Markenaus der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
32: Hundesteuer-Marken(Deutschland)
33: Glücks-Pfennige(Deutschland)

Other categories of tokens on Numista (within Germany):
casino, counter, local, masonic, merchandise, military, mint, new year, parking, religious, replicas, souvenir, spielgeld, spielmarke and further segregation by German States, GDR and Germany 1871-1949.

*************************
Opening theme for hopefully fruitful discussion. Thank you all for ANY contributions/ideas on how to enhance categorization of German (and other states) token categories. One of goals could be defining rules for token categories, along with defining token examples for each category, despite of frequent hardships to distinguish where does some token belong to.

Hope for a reply or two...

LP!

<sigh>

Something needs to be done about tokens/exonumia, there needed to be something done years ago, there was a project started a few years back to try and sort it out but the method chosen was far to convoluted with sections, sub sections, sub sub sections, sub sub sub sections, etc.

I suggested a simple solution a few years ago, to set up a token and exonumia section in each country, move all of the tokens and exonumia into the relevant country. It was met with a good response from users, but like most good ideas on this site, was ignored by the powers that be. One of the reasons I resigned as referee and don't spend much time on the site anymore

An example of how it would work was the New Zealand catalogue would look like:

• New Zealand Pound (1933-1964)
  
• New Zealand Dollar (1967-present)
  
• New Zealand Trade Tokens (1857-1881)
  
• Trial Strikes (1966-date)
  
• New Zealand Tokens
  
• New Zealand Exonumia
  

Tokens guidelines are being worked on, you are right, that these are obsolete.

I can agree that it should have been fixed long time ago.

For the simple solution of moving them all into relevant countries, it looks nice in the currency menu, but that is about everything. US catalogue stands on nearly 900 coins, that is 9 pages (assuming one orders by 100), with just tokens added there (not counting Exonumia) this number would soar into 8400 ! pieces, that is 84 pages...

Honestly, someone just need to catgorise them into groups with a flow chart. It will be easy that way.

I have only recently added this token (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces150319.html), which is actually a coin/token used in "Truck system" (Habsburg empire, pre WWI), which is decently explained here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_wages

I guess also French Consommer tokens could fall in this same category, US (older) Merchandise and Hard times tokens, United kingdoms "Wage tokens" and so on...

It also seems appropriate to leave head referees over complete token category, but sub-referees for every state could/should be added to the Numista logic. I cannot say that head referee has perfect overview and token knowledge for each country, but local per-country appointed token referee (must be a person who cares about genuine token structure) should/could also be implemented.

Please add "Truck wage tokens" for "Austria (Habsburg)". "Truck wage tokens" could also be set up as a common denomination for different countries.

Hence we come to another conclusion regarding tokens:

• Common token currency type, which can be used for different countries
  
• Specific token currency type, which can be used for single country only
  

=> Can some one from admins please paste current "token currency flow chart" to be worked on (as Saber82 pointed out)?

LP

I thought the whole idea of organising them was so we can then clean them up and limit what goes into the catalogue from then on. If we got rid of all the chuck-e-cheese tokens, play money, tourist tokens, etc then you wouldn’t have quite so much to have to worry about categorising