Ottoman gold/silver coins Mahmud II year 1223/11 or 1817/18?

Hi,

Few months ago I bought these two Ottoman coins. Origin of these coins coming from family Lutvich from village Zakomo nearby Rogatica in Bosnia. Granddaughter sell them to me and she got them from her Grandmother, and her Grandmother got them for her wedding as part of Ottoman tradition in that time (for info: because of that tradition lot of Ottoman coins have a hole). This means these coins were property of this family from time when they were forged. On silver coin I cannot read anything. On golden coin I can read everything. My doubt is why I cannot find anything regarding this coin in catalogue? If somebody have any idea or information I will appreciate it. Thank you.

Description of coins:
Silver R 10mm Weight 0.3-0.4 grams
Gold R 23mm Weight 1.2-1.3 grams Minted in Constantinople.

In my opinion the gold coin is not an original from the Constantine mint of the Ottoman empire. It has an incorrect weight of 1.2-1.3g when it should be 1.73g. That difference cannot be explained away by wear. The coin also appears to be cast. In catalogs available to me the earliest year for this coin design was 1223/21; your coin is dated 1223/11.

I agree. both are decorative items, however old, not minted coins.

I agree too but I am still confused.
As I am part of tradition of that place and that times let me explain:
During the Ottoman Empire there was dead penalty for those who falsifies coins and serious consequences for their entire families or even for entire village. Something similar like coin was not allowed to be minted even as part of decoration.
It had completely different purpose. In old times, bride had to bring in a new family of her future husband: land, gold or animals (like: cows, sheep, goats ...). The most popular thing that emerged in the so-called “miraz” was a branch of coins. Exclusively of genuine coins of gold or rarely silver which were subject to a particular check and assessment. Sometimes there were 10 coins and sometimes over 100 depend of the social status. On the wedding ceremonies bride was bringing them usually around her head that everybody can see them. It was a pledge of her family. This custom still remains in some parts of Turkey, Serbia, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Macedonia, Greece, Albania... and brides are still bringing gold coins. There is no anything such decoration on the wedding ceremonies, there are always real cold coins. This particular coin was part of one old branch of coins. Normally grandmothers were giving such branch of coins for weddings of their own granddaughters. That how those branches stays in the families during generations.
Beside this above I believe (if coin is not original) that this coin was a counterfeit copy of that period. Forged copies were made identical to the original, but smaller amount of gold or silver was placed (an original American dollar was 26 g and copy was 20g). Despite the ban on copies, they existed everywhere in the world, but they were usually identical to the original.
My doubt is (if it is copy) why counterfeiters did not put an original year on the copy as they did on other copies of that time? Coincidence is that the year on this coin is also from the period of sultan Mahmoud II like on those starting from 1223/21 (10 years after). Let say that coin was cast but still remain different year than in any catalogue.
Does this coin have any value in your opinion?
On the picture you can see how it is looking. Those one are ducats from Austro-Hungarian Empire on Chatolic wedding in central Bosnia.

Thank you for sharing that information. One possible explanation for the 1223/11 date is that this coin design did not exist at that time, so it is technically not a 'copy' but a fantasy. The value of this coin will be in its gold content.