Japanese puppet states: separate into third-level issuers [solved]

Hello,

I am glad to see that the Indian Princely States are being reworked, but a similar issue exists with the China- Japanese puppet states issuer, in that different countries under that second level issuer currently exist only as currencies inside China- Japanese puppet states.

They should definitely be third level issuers in their own right instead of the way they are now; especially Manchukuo and Mengjiang.

Well, ok with the idea, but what are these?

Beijing - Yen (1937-1945)
East Hopei - Yen (1936-1939)
Nanjing - Yen (1938-1941)

I know that Beijing and Nanjing are cities. Were they some sort of administrative units or states or what?

Quote: "Jarcek"​Well, ok with the idea, but what are these?
​
​Beijing - Yen (1937-1945)
​East Hopei - Yen (1936-1939)
​Nanjing - Yen (1938-1941)
​
​I know that Beijing and Nanjing are cities. Were they some sort of administrative units or states or what?

​I almost forgot about this suggestion of mine.

Yes, those are all administrative units of some sort; East Hopei was an unrecognised state created in 1935 as a buffer between another unrecognised Japanese puppet state (Manchukuo) and the Republic of China.

As for Beijing and Nanjing, those refer to the "Provisional Government of the Republic of China" (based in Beijing) and the "Reformed Government of the Republic of China" (based in Nanking), both administrations set up by Japanese collaborators in China, that were later merged together.

Here's a map to demonstrate:

Black is Manchukuo, Pink is Mengjiang, Green is the "Beijing" collaborationist government, Peach is the "Nanking" collaborationist government, and the red striped area was East Hopei (merged into the Beijing collaborationist government in 1938, a year after Japan invaded the rest of China, and set it up).

Little nudge, just so this doesn't get buried....

Dont worry, it might seem burried on the forum, but we have all marked requests listed on special page.

Any idea how to name ​Beijing and ​Nanjing, so it does not look weird? Other three are ok.

The most accurate ways I can think of is just:

• China, Provisional Government of
  
• China, Reformed Governement of
  

Beijing and Nanjing just seem to be the capitals, whereas the coins were issued for the entire states. Aside from Numista, I have not been able to find sources differenciating these places by only their capitals, so... maybe it is best if we stick to the proper names?

Alphabetically, it would look like:

• China, Provisional Government of
  
• China, Reformed Government of
  
• East Hopei
  
• Manchoukuo
  
• Meng Chiang
  

Yes, it may look a little weird, but we did not name those issuers. Blame history.

As long as I can see them all at once when I click on China, Japanese puppet states I don't care to much how they are seperated. The first is simply a time separation the second a regional one.

Do I have to do that (I never created an issuer) or can a catalog admin do the creation?

I can create them, and you will see them all together. As you mentioned, if those first two are just time separation for same area, is there a term that would apply to both? Something like "occupied China"?

I think Occupied China is a little too broad. While both the Provisional and Reformed governments would fit into it, so would East Hopei, Manchoukuo, and Meng Chiang. These puppets were all occupied areas.

With that being said, I never did look at the actual dates on the coins. All Nanjing coins are from 1940; all Beijing coins are from 1941-1943.

Both the Provisional and Reformed governments combined in 1940 to form the Reorganized National Government of China.

So... combing the coins under one issuer may not be all that unproper. Of course, the above name is even longer than the names of the split areas, but you could call the combination the Wang Jingwei Regime, if that looks any better.

Other names for this place (according to Wiki, at least), include Nanjing Regime, Wang's Puppet Regime, China-Nanjing, and New China.

But after the combination, the Provisional government remained rather independant from the Reformed government, which makes me think that these issuers should not be combined. Under the Wang Jingwei Regime, the Provisional government went by North China.

So... we could go:
----- Wang Jingwei Regime (with both areas under one issuer)

Or:
----- Nanjing Regime (or one of the various other names)
----- North China

Or, if fourth-level issuers are ever created, we could combine the two:
----- Wang Jingwei Regime
---------- Nanjing Regime
---------- North China

Thanks Idolenz for the message! I will keep them separate for now.

Ok, I just created new issuers for these. I will request moving the coins and rename and move currencies tommorow.

It should be done once requests are validated and once system updates.