Dominion of Pakistan

After the independence of Pakistan and India in 1947, India had it's own constitution and Dominion of Pakistan was first ruled by king George VI from 1947 to 1952 and then Elizabeth II from 1952 to 1956.
After 1956 Pakistan adopted the republican constitution and ceased to be a dominion.

Now, about the coinage of Pakistan, before 1956 as Pakistan was being a dominion, ruled by George VI first then and later by Elizabeth II, coins at this time in Numista must have been struck under their reign and name.

Regards
Subha

Sort of a ghost coinage then. Since no coins of Pakistan bear the names?

Needless to say but their names should be added.

Hmmm .. aren't the coins listed as the government of Pakistan required and as inscribed on the coins?

Yes, but the "Heads" of the Government of Pakistan were these monarchs.

And that is how the coins must have their name. Even they don't have their name on coins, they must be listed in Numista.

We don't put heads of state of governments on any other coins of the world unless they are depicted. Countries like Switzerland or the US would look ridiculous if we listed the heads of state for each coin design. Some designs would have 20 or more heads of state. Queen Elizabeth and her father are acknowledged on all of their coins because they appear on all of there coins. To put their names on issues that speak naught of them would be a mistake. And would be confusing to most. And can you imagine the precedent of having to write the head of state as part of every coin issue? For centuries we use the design on the coin and legends on the coin. If we use head of state it is because of appearance on the coin. I think this is a confusing idea.

They do not have to be listed. We don't do heads of state for most countries. Probably any country. Unless the head of state appears on the coin. I imagine if we implement this terrible idea how junked up the search would be. Why don't you just put in the notes or comments that Queen Elizabeth was queen at the issuance of this coin. That information has no place on a page title when there is no indication by design or legend that the Queen had anything to do with it. Can you give any examples where this has been done elsewhere?

I don't want you to think I oppose for the sake of opposition. You, as a resident of the former East Pakistan probably have a better horse in this race than I do, as a resident of Oklahoma. I also know of the Queens link to Pakistan. Emblems of Pakistan appeared embroidered into her coronation gown..or perhaps her wedding gown. The Queen is my favorite subject to collect as well. I just wonder if it would be better to limit confusion when the delightful information of her as head of state could appear in the notes and comments rather than the page title..

The reason is not that. There is no need to spring up but I think that some of the coins were of a type struck during their regn and during IR [Islamnic Republic] that is why I think there is a good reason to add notes.

I agree about adding it as notes. Are you able to submit a modification for the listing?

Yup, I sent modification requests.

I fully agree with Oklahoman here. In this particular case adding notes is the right thing to do.

And there must have been a value of the Rupee that was used in Barakzai Afghanistan that was used from 1826 to 1925.

According to wiki, the value of Rupee must be,
5 Paisa = 1 Shahi
10 Paisa = 1 Sanar
20 Paisa = 1 Abbasi
30 Paisa = 1 Qiran / ½ Rupee
60 Paisa = 10 dinar = 1 Rupee
10 Rupees = 1 Tilla/Amani

Jamaica's decimal coins don't depict the monarch's portrait,nor does the decimal coins of the Bahamas - yet the Queen is still the head of state for those 2 countries, along with Barbados.

Pakistan's coins from 1948 to 1955 should be classed separately,because of the constitutional arrangement that was in place - the reigning monarch being the head of state,but represented locally by the Governor-General of Pakistan.

Iskander Mirza was both the last Governor-General (1955-56) & the first President (1956-58).

Aidan.

Yep. And she should have her name removed from every issue she is not mentioned on or depicted on. Heads of state that are not on or mentioned on a coin should not be listed. They are not a part of the coin. Are we going to extend this bizarre treatment to the rest of the world? This mucks up the search and would be strange for anyone looking up their coin on Numista. Does Numista routinely add heads of states to coins? Why do it for the Queen? Give her credit when she appears in effigy or legend by all means.

Also...are their any of those types that straddle your date of 1955? Yes. Identical designs with the same catalog number...and it is ok to just choose some which should say the Queen and some shouldnt? I see a lot of Ottoman Empire toughness on these coins. Should we put the Sultan on them? This whole thing is so odd. Here is a coin with an apple on it. So let's list the page with banana in the title. They are both fruit after all.

Adding notes is okay, but there were also coins of Elizabeth II on which she is not depicted on, a point and question arises.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces65.html
Correction-I think that the "head of state" in this thread must be replaced by "monarchs".

I just hope we dont do it with US stuff. What a nightmare.

Quote: "Oklahoman"​Also...are their any of those types that straddle your date of 1955? Yes. Identical designs with the same catalog number...and it is ok to just choose some which should say the Queen and some shouldnt? I see a lot of Ottoman Empire toughness on these coins. Should we put the Sultan on them? This whole thing is so odd. Here is a coin with an apple on it. So let's list the page with banana in the title. They are both fruit after all.

​

The Toughra on Ottoman Turkish coins is the monogram of the ruling Sultan - but Ottoman Turkish coins also use accession as well as regnal dates indicated in Arabic numerals.

I see nothing wrong with including references to the reigning monarch for coins of countries such as the Bahamas,Malawi (1964 coins),Rhodesia,& the Maldives (up to the 1960 coins).

As for Pakistan,1956 is classed as the first year of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan - as Pakistan ceased to be a Dominion on the 23rd. of March 1956.

Aidan.

Some of those Pakistan coins you want to have Queen Elizabeth name linked to are also the exact same type of coin issued when she was no longer head of state. How do you propose to divide the listings in that case? Also I realized I was not clear. Most of those Pakistan coins depict the Ottoman toughra. Seems maybe that should be noted in the coin title than the Queen who is completely absent from the coin entirely. But at the end of the day I just hope logic wins and we dont do that to US listings where we have a new head of state every 4 years.

Yes, and that is why it was better to add it off as notes in those types of coins which were struck from 1948/9 to after 1956.

And Queen Elizabeth II's and her father George VI's name could be added on types of coins on their pages on those coins struck from 1948/9 to 1956.

And that Tughra wasn't an Ottoman one. Several types of tughra's were used.
In Afghanistani coins, for example, 25 Pul have the tughra of Muhammed Nadir Shah.
That Pakistani tughra was of Muhammad Ali Jinnah, I guess, because he was the one who work'd for Pakistani Independence. Note that tughra has a crescent on it.

Good to know. I knew that each toughra was different. But I had also heard that the toughra was an ottoman device and served the same function as an Asian seal. Is this not the case?

Tughra must have been first used by Ottoman sultans. Afghani tughra, Pakistani Tughra, Saudi Tughra, but tughra it is. Yes, it was first used by the Ottomans, but yes, the structure of the tughra had some other "native letterings". Tughra was later used by the Afghanistani's and Pakistani's with having their Pashto and Urdu letterings, then also used in the same manner in the Saudi Arabia, Mutawakillite Kingdom, etc.
In that case, Ottomans are the ones to be acknowledged. Yes, you're right, Tughra was an Ottoman device, but other nations had their letterings in their tughra.