Hi friends
Let us put the profile of Shameful Swappers on Numista ,So everyone would be cautious and do not get trapped by there sweet conversations...........
The Great [ deleted by VieillePile] from [ dito] ... He has cheated 4 person ,still 2 are on the way to be cheated....
[ dito ]
[ Dear fellow collectors, I am afraid that such naming does not comply with the site policy; please first get in touch with the site admin so that any non complying behaviour may be dully treated; VieillePile Friday october 20th, 21 PM]
Threads like these are useless since you'renot allowed to name the cheating users. They have rights too, you know (even if it's debatable if they diserve it or not).
It's very amazing how democratically the site is running ....
Yes cheaters do have rights to cheat more people....
My only motive to start this thread was to make people aware. .. ..
I guess it's right of Spade to called a Spade,are we afraid are we cowards.....
Astonished to see support for these kind of people...
Why only delete the name, Kindly deleted the whole thread, as without name it's useless... I never imagined this kind of response for Speaking Truth.
Sorry , but now I guess I got a sense despite having thousands users why there are very limited active user on topics and threads.......
I believe we've had similar threads before, but all of them ended up like this one. at that time we posted username, real name & address, but everything got censored and after a while the thread died out completely..
Probably because getting cheating out of some coins doesn't warrant doxing people. You don't know who you're doxing, for one. What if it's some cheeky kid? Second, the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
Mob justice isn't justice. It's an unfortunate situation but we're not vigilantes here. Go through official channels and the admins will do their best.
Quote: "arvin11"Sorry , but now I guess I got a sense despite having thousands users why there are very limited active user on topics and threads.......
The main reason, as I see it, thousands of members are not active on the forums because of the BS ridicule that they would get from a few of the members .. So, they just sit back, read, and enjoy their collections ...
Another reason is that, since this is the ENGLISH side of this FRENCH SITE, it is international. Being international there are many different native languages, cultures, wide variety of opinions of which very seldom agree with others. So, they just sit back, read, and enjoy their collections ...
? Format Format Format ? ?
Do not argue with ignorant people .. !! They will drag you down to their level, then pulverize you with experience ...
I believe the ratings of collectors is sufficient to weed out bad collectors. Most likely, I will not trade with someone who does not have a number of swaps and a good rating as well.
When first starting out, I was glad to send my coins first and let the other person swap coins after he received mine. I think that is sure fire way to bring in someone new to swapping coins. Trust but verify.
Quote: "MonaSeaclaid"Probably because getting cheating out of some coins doesn't warrant doxing people. You don't know who you're doxing, for one. What if it's some cheeky kid? Second, the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
Mob justice isn't justice. It's an unfortunate situation but we're not vigilantes here. Go through official channels and the admins will do their best.
I do can see the point in deleted posts where people are being accused for being scammers, and their names and addresses "get loose" in the forums. But when the reaction, after deleting, is nothing it makes is all very confusing. This comunity should be built on trust, but instead it seems like, from the outside, that the scammers are those who gets protected. Sure, delete the posts, but also delete the accounts!
Right now it seems like the approach of Numista is:
It's funny how admins refuse to protect members by swiftly deleting accounts of known scammers (sure, let them scam a few more members, no big deal ) yet react fast when it comes to protecting those scammers.
Now I'm not saying people who have been scammed should be allowed to post names and addresses of the crooks, but maintaining a list with the username of known scammers seems reasonable to me.
Quote: "BryanJ"It's funny how admins refuse to protect members by swiftly deleting accounts of known scammers (sure, let them scam a few more members, no big deal ) yet react fast when it comes to protecting those scammers.
Now I'm not saying people who have been scammed should be allowed to post names and addresses of the crooks, but maintaining a list with the username of known scammers seems reasonable to me.
Unfortunately, it's just as easy for a scammer to create a new account and continue scamming. It's easier to keep the account of a known scammer with its low rating, than try to figure out what their new account is.
Quote: "Houseofham"...It's easier to keep the account of a known scammer with its low rating...
Comes with the note of suspicious activities too, in red at top of exchange profile..
Quote: "Houseofham"...try to figure out what their new account is...
Accounts with same IP (doesn't mean same user) also have notes about that to track linked accounts.
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
As a member that i had a bad swap from (member)that cheats me.I have this opinion:
<<Swap across the world
Numista connects you with collectors from the world over. Numista knows what coins you are looking for and helps you find them in the double coins from other members. Your swaps are made easy, fast and friendly.>>
This is the logo in front page of the site.
En Numista have no obligation for bad swaps from member to member,only connecting you.Thats all.
The responsibillity for a succeed swap is only between the 2 sides.
I will say a phrase that i had used in a previous similar post with same subject.
Always exist a method to avoid the wolves tells a story in my country.
Regards.
Nobody cares about connecting and other the ̶b̶̶u̶̶l̶̶l̶̶s̶̶h̶̶i̶̶t̶ stuff you mentioned.
Numista does everything to defend and protect scammers and cheaters. Not passively but also actively! Sometimes ago even the main-moderators where known cheaters. [deleted] to name some.
We never heard a word of apologize from the people in charge.
[EDIT: no such naming to comply with forum policy - pejounet]
Quote: "MonaSeaclaid"Probably because getting cheating out of some coins doesn't warrant doxing people. You don't know who you're doxing, for one. What if it's some cheeky kid? Second, the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
Mob justice isn't justice. It's an unfortunate situation but we're not vigilantes here. Go through official channels and the admins will do their best.
I think this is probably the stupidest post I have read on this or any other forum on the internet, ever. And that is saying a lot. Theft, fraud scamming is indefensible. Period.
Quote: "5element"As a member that i had a bad swap from (member)that cheats me.I have this opinion:
<<Swap across the world
Numista connects you with collectors from the world over. Numista knows what coins you are looking for and helps you find them in the double coins from other members. Your swaps are made easy, fast and friendly.>>,
This is the logo in front page of the site.
En Numista have no obligation for bad swaps from member to member,only connecting you.Thats all.
The responsibillity for a succeed swap is only between the 2 sides.
I will say a phrase that i had used in a previous similar post with same subject.
Always exist a method to avoid the wolves tells a story in my country.
Regards.
Very well said 5element, ignore the retarded rodent's profanity, it is about time people started to assume some responsibility for their own actions and stopped whinging about how their greed and naivety cost them a bunch of valuable coins.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.
Thank you Sir for Sharing this classic example... If this was share earlier then I guess the latest victim have been saved - look at the new ratings of KennyG----sorry Sir
Sir radrick007 it's Astonishing to read your views - is sending coins first and getting cheated is Greed then I guess the whole concept of swapping according to you is Greed.
May be some members are from very affluent background who doesn't bother loosing few coins.... But as small collector as my self it matters to me .... My whole and sole intention for Starting this thread is to create a data base of these Shamefull swappers ID should be recorded and displayed (No actual address) and there techniques can be discussed, So people can share there experience without any fear.... I strongly believe there are many people who are afraid to rate cheaters and remain silent many months So there own rating do not get affected... and in between the cheaters take advantage of this. I have seen Some members have duped sever people in a row, But no one pointed the wrong doing, As they were afraid that who will bell the Cat.....
IF suspicious IDs are shared timely, I guess then many innocent people can be saved....
It doesn't mean the discussion cannot happen about solutions to report troubles but a friendly reminder that citing and/or giving links to people profiles while stating/implying they are cheaters is not complying with Numista policy. Plus, a case that happened to you (any member individually) is an example of your own experience (that can be good or bad), but this is not a rule of thumb.
Once again, there are options to report suspicious profiles through the button () at top right of any profile and the possibility to PM moderators and admins about specific troubles.
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Quote.....doesn't mean the discussion cannot happen about solutions to report troubles but a friendly reminder that citing and/or giving links to people profiles while stating/implying they are cheaters is not complying with Numista policy.
sorry but at 10 failed swaps in a row from Mr. [deleted] is still considered implying???
Fact:
Numista policies means active and passive help for cheaters. Maybe there should be a popup window before each swap that this website doesnt give a damn that it hosts crooks. And furthermore it will do anything to protect them from justice should you get cheated.
Quote.....doesn't mean the discussion cannot happen about solutions to report troubles but a friendly reminder that citing and/or giving links to people profiles while stating/implying they are cheaters is not complying with Numista policy.
sorry but at 10 failed swaps in a row from Mr. [deleted] is still considered implying???
Fact:
Numista policies means active and passive help for cheaters. Maybe there should be a popup window before each swap that this website doesnt give a damn that it hosts crooks. And furthermore it will do anything to protect them from justice.
You probably missed the word written just before: "stating"...
About current way:
Purely deleting an account is useless as it's easy to get an email address and create a new account.
Not judging anybody but it's not so hard to read the big notice with red background at top of exchange profile which states "attention", "suspicious activities", "be very careful"...
There is a specific button on each member profile, made on purpose to report suspicious activities.
Deleting accounts with same IP, is also useless as it doesn't necessarily mean accounts are related to the same user (by the way, your account would be deleted in such process...just saying...)
Having some public shaming place to cite usernames or personal details...maybe some of our users are kids but it doesn't mean we have to use childish process. Let's try to find something better...which brings my conclusion:
I guess you also missed the word "discussion" (probably being busy stating how bad Numista is and implying how its admins and moderators are evil's incarnations), then why not discuss withother and draft some solutions with constructive ideas? Try it, it works! That's how we do it in hell in good company as they sing it here..
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
I have had good swaps. I always look for good ratings. If you have a 10, then you get a ten swap. The ratings are a good sign of what you'll get. A ten rating will get you good, a ten swap. I personally always trade big, I always put the trader first. I trade my coins in 2x2 coins and I grade them to the letter.
Deleting accounts with same IP, is also useless as it doesn't necessarily mean accounts are related to the same user (by the way, your account would be deleted in such process...just saying...)
I think Deleting IP address is a great solution, if you live in the house with a cheater then you get excluded, too bad, but that's better than the alternative. How many IP addresses have multiple members anyway?
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Quote: "arvin11"
Sir radrick007 it's Astonishing to read your views - is sending coins first and getting cheated is Greed then I guess the whole concept of swapping according to you is Greed.
May be some members are from very affluent background who doesn't bother loosing few coins.... But as small collector as my self it matters to me .... My whole and sole intention for Starting this thread is to create a data base of these Shamefull swappers ID should be recorded and displayed (No actual address) and there techniques can be discussed, So people can share there experience without any fear.... I strongly believe there are many people who are afraid to rate cheaters and remain silent many months So there own rating do not get affected... and in between the cheaters take advantage of this. I have seen Some members have duped sever people in a row, But no one pointed the wrong doing, As they were afraid that who will bell the Cat.....
IF suspicious IDs are shared timely, I guess then many innocent people can be saved....
[EDIT: no such naming to comply with forum policy - pejounet]
I'm sorry you got cheated. There are already plenty threads that tell you how to be careful of cheaters, but it really comes down to what several members have said, swap with members that have good ratings. If you fail to read the huge red warning banner on a cheaters page, there's not much anyone can do. If your the first person to get cheated by someone with 10 good ratings, that sucks but you will have to roll with it, it happens. Usually they are after your silver or valuable coins, usually they have hoards of valuable coins in there swap lists that they will swap for half price, this is where greed comes in, you believe the lie and ignore the big red warning because you want to get some good coins.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Sir redsmithstudios its not that you get that warning every time ,We were on the way of swap there was no warning...
If you wantIi can give you a ID of a member who is probably on the way of cheating at least 7-8 people ,I have already clicked that button on his profile and informed the Moderators two days ago but still now ,no warning message is appearing to his profile.
What exactly the criteria of appearing the warning message is????????????
Deleting accounts with same IP, is also useless as it doesn't necessarily mean accounts are related to the same user (by the way, your account would be deleted in such process...just saying...)
Huge surprise here! Rat brains has other accounts that he cheats form!
I think Deleting IP address is a great solution, if you live in the house with a cheater then you get excluded, too bad, but that's better than the alternative. How many IP addresses have multiple members anyway?
Then you can start right now and delete my account and my daughter's account. Before you do that, please take a look at my feedback and think long and hard before naming me or my daughter a cheater. Just saying...
Arvin, this guy you say scammed you, please tell us what happened?
As for his swap list, he is not swapping anything of value, what was the value of the coins you sent him?
Also why haven’t you rated him with a bad rating? This is what will protect people!
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Quote: "arvin11"Sir redsmithstudios its not that you get that warning every time ,We were on the way of swap there was no warning...
If you wantIi can give you a ID of a member who is probably on the way of cheating at least 7-8 people ,I have already clicked that button on his profile and informed the Moderators two days ago but still now ,no warning message is appearing to his profile.
What exactly the criteria of appearing the warning message is????????????
Unfortunately I see 3 notifications from you reporting users in my email box and zero messages in my inbox about scammers.
One was for spam which got removed. (August 20th)
Another was a complaint about coins depicting homosexual desire which I decided to take no action on. (June 19th)
And the Third was about brothel tokens (15th October) which I responded to on the thread.
Generally if you drop me a message on Numista I look into things fairly quickly and give my opinion, plus add warnings to the profiles if justified.
Quote: "oggy"Xavier made the call not to delete scam accounts as they can easily be recreated.
This here is the problem. This is lazyness, indifference, and giving the right to the scammers.
Easy way to do it:
1) Delete scam accounts on regular basis (preferably daily).
2) E-mail addresses can only be used once, so if you want a second account (for some reason) you'll need a second e-mail address
By following these two simple steps, we'll probably het rid of 50% of the scammers. I mean, imagibe to have to creaged a new e-mail address every day just to maybe be able to scam someone. After a week they'll find out that it's not worth the effort.
By saying "there's no point in protected my users from scammers, so just let the scammers steal and rage freely. Who cares anyway?" is a very sh***y attitude, especially by the proudly Creator and main administrator of Numista. I mean his, if anyone's, highest priority should be to take care lf those who's helping him to build his site to what it is today. But instead, he don't even care.
Quote: "oggy"Xavier made the call not to delete scam accounts as they can easily be recreated.
This here is the problem. This is lazyness, indifference, and giving the right to the scammers.
Easy way to do it:
1) Delete scam accounts on regular basis (preferably daily).
2) E-mail addresses can only be used once, so if you want a second account (for some reason) you'll need a second e-mail address
By following these two simple steps, we'll probably het rid of 50% of the scammers. I mean, imagibe to have to creaged a new e-mail address every day just to maybe be able to scam someone. After a week they'll find out that it's not worth the effort.
By saying "there's no point in protected my users from scammers, so just let the scammers steal and rage freely. Who cares anyway?" is a very sh***y attitude, especially by the proudly Creator and main administrator of Numista. I mean his, if anyone's, highest priority should be to take care lf those who's helping him to build his site to what it is today. But instead, he don't even care.
Then make a thread suggestion for xavier in website suggestions and maybe he will address it.
It's important to note the rest of 'the admin team' can do absolutely nothing about it so venting here makes no difference whatsoever. We don't make the policy, and we don't have the ability to delete accounts. I suppose I could ask for .htaccess access and set IP bans that way, but I've never seen any inclination he wants to go down that route.
Quote: "oggy"Then make a thread suggestion for xavier in website suggestions and maybe he will address it.
It's important to note the rest of 'the admin team' can do absolutely nothing about it so venting here makes no difference whatsoever.
This should've been the first reply here. Of the "normal users" not many knows who decides what here, and therefore blames the first persom they see.
Quote: "redsmithstudios"Arvin, this guy you say scammed you, please tell us what happened?
As for his swap list, he is not swapping anything of value, what was the value of the coins you sent him?
Also why haven’t you rated him with a bad rating? This is what will protect people!
I don't know who this guy is, from where he he had jump in this thread.. We never had any swap.....
Hello everyone....
I Have a idea how this can be done .
If a member is restricted to do only certain number of swap, for example 3,4 etc etc. His swap page will lock. It will only unlock when number of swap become equal to number of rating (without concerding good or bad)
This will prevent him to cheat people in a row.
As I have noticed, the technique these cheaters use that they have few good ratings and they start targeting people in a one go, 9-10 Swaps in which at least 7-8 people get duped. They become silent and wait for few months and this starts again....
Quote: "Muenzenhamster"@oggy forget that namelist. Just make a list with country and streetnames for us to look up.
e.G.
Oxford Street , Ldn
Rajpir road, Dehli
its far more difficult for cheaters to change adresses than nicks and emails
I am not so sure...
I for one (Not your common numista guy with two houses) can ship in one of my locations to my house or work address, as the system does not require an address in the registration process. its very easy for someone to request a parcel to one of his relatives, or ship to his office, etc.
Actually many people swap with me too different address due to shipping price convenience, etc etc. So this guys can change address to their grandma, girlfriend, etc, etc.
Best choice is to use caution, original poster never enlightened us on what happened. I’m not ready to call it a scam until I’ve heard the story.
The member in question doesn’t have a rating from op, how can he claim a scam with someone he hasn’t rated?
How can he claim the there needs to be warnings if he hasn’t put up the first and Best warning.... a bad rating?
Arvin, you’ve got to tell us what’s going on? Perhaps the parcel is late, lost, or stolen, or perhaps you have not even swapped ?
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Thanks for your response via p.m., I will respond here.
Yes, you must have mistakenly sent me a different username the first time. This guy is a crook. I could be wrong but in my opinion and I hate to say it, but there are some regions that seem to have more crooks than others. More caution might be needed with some regions more than others and caution is always needed. But it’s also important to swap with users that have good ratings already. And also check how many swaps they have on the road. If they have many at one time, use caution also why doesn’t he have the red warning banner?!
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
An update on this. In addition to the suspicious users thread we'll be adding an extra little tool.
This will check for postal codes/zip codes as suspicious when you enter them, and also flag them up by message. It's all green flagged, so we're just waiting for the coding/implementation now.
Quote: "oggy"An update on this. In addition to the suspicious users thread we'll be adding an extra little tool.
This will check for postal codes/zip codes as suspicious when you enter them, and also flag them up by message. It's all green flagged, so we're just waiting for the coding/implementation now.
Thank You Sir,For taking up this issue .....and everybody on this thread.....
.It will make Numista a more secure swapping site.!
You can consider my suggestion of Locking the swap if exceed a permissible numbers,Number of swap = Number of rating ,to start again I guess!
Quote: "oggy"An update on this. In addition to the suspicious users thread we'll be adding an extra little tool.
This will check for postal codes/zip codes as suspicious when you enter them, and also flag them up by message. It's all green flagged, so we're just waiting for the coding/implementation now.
Thank You Sir,For taking up this issue .....and everybody on this thread.....
.It will make Numista a more secure swapping site.!
You can consider my suggestion of Locking the swap if exceed a permissible numbers,Number of swap = Number of rating ,to start again I guess!
Don't credit me. The initial idea to make a list came from the admin meeting yesterday which I don't attend. (Thanks pejounet for updating me!) - I only had the idea for the tool instead of a list.
Locking swaps won't be happening. You can already see the number of swaps your partner has and make an informed decision.
) yet react fast when it comes to protecting those scammers.
) at top right of any profile and the possibility to PM moderators and admins about specific troubles. 
in good company as they sing it here.. 
