Hi every one
I have come across a problem within the last month i have tried to start a swap with two Numista members that turned out to be under aged. I don't know the exact age but under 18 for sure !!
I don't feel ok doing a swap with them because they are children and i don't want the hassle or problems that might come up swapping with them .
Does Numista allow under aged members to sign up??
Shouldn't we be informed about their age in some way ??
Is the transaction safe when done with a child , and i mean it in all ways ??
In American law the minor will always have more rights. The adult assumes all responsibilities and infractions to the point of imprisonment.
If you loose property from a transaction, you are responsible.
Answer: I will not do business with a minor, not even family.
Yes my friend
but when i start a swap with some one i don't ask him his age .
I just received a pm and was told that he is 15 !
He might be a great kid and a great collector but he's under aged !
That's my point.
In most of Europe it's legal to have sex, drink, smoke, work, and get married at 14-16. Only in the US and a few other countres are people so anal about the law.
Quote: "Ragnarr"In most of Europe it's legal to have sex, drink, smoke, work, and get married at 14-16. Only in the US and a few other countres are people so anal about the law.
Yiorgos, I don´t think that there is some problem when swapping with youngsters. I am 20, started collecting when I was 16 and did swaps on Numista even before 18.
I think you are just talking about whether you should trust people under-18 when swapping or trading. I did have an opportunity to sell some coins to a collector under-18 and everything went smooth.
- You're swapping coins with them not having sex with them and making babies with them
- International trade laws are so complex anyway that a scam is a scam; they aren't likely to get a call from the local police if the swap goes bad
- Nobody knows definitively what another persons age is here, and it's unrealistic to expect us to 'detect' younger numismatists.
- It's discriminatory.
- Younger members will mostly be dealing in lower value swaps anyway, so even less chance of scams from them.
Once more I'll reiterate, there is no 'legal' issue here that I can see whatsoever, as long as they are over 13 (before that I believe they aren't allowed to signup to forums without parental supervision).
I have had swaps with under aged coin collectors. well I think I have. I really don't know. If it is of low value go right ahead. I only trade higher value with people I have swap with before. I still don't think I have any silver in my swap list. But have swap a lot of it , with people I know
Quote: "oggy"I disagree that this is an issue.
- You're swapping coins with them not having sex with them and making babies with them
- International trade laws are so complex anyway that a scam is a scam; they aren't likely to get a call from the local police if the swap goes bad
- Nobody knows definitively what another persons age is here, and it's unrealistic to expect us to 'detect' younger numismatists.
- It's discriminatory.
- Younger members will mostly be dealing in lower value swaps anyway, so even less chance of scams from them.
Once more I'll reiterate, there is no 'legal' issue here that I can see whatsoever, as long as they are over 13 (before that I believe they aren't allowed to signup to forums without parental supervision).
The question I'd ask is, why do you care?
I agree.. this thread just makes a young collector sound like some shady character. It's in really bad taste.... and does not help encourage young new collectors into this hobby
As a question of trust, you should treat him/her like anyone else; ask questions and judge how reliable they are from their replies..
I found this inappropriate at a personal level because I'm in my early 30's now; but I started collecting as young as 7. If established collectors hadn't encouraged me then, given me respect and taken me seriously , I doubt I would be collecting now.
Here in the US we have a series of regulations called the Uniform Commercial Code or UCC. It specifies that people under the age of 18 cannot enter into binding contracts for items other than necessities. And while coins may be a necessity for some of us, the US courts wouldn't see it that way.
Quote: "Steve27"Here in the US we have a series of regulations called the Uniform Commercial Code or UCC. It specifies that people under the age of 18 cannot enter into binding contracts for items other than necessities. And while coins may be a necessity for some of us, the US courts wouldn't see it that way.
The UCC governs commercial/business transactions. It does cover personal property, but this refers to property (generally real estate) becoming a security. (eg. A mortgage or loan you take on your property).
The reason why people do not like to do business with minors is as you say, because they can just disaffirm any contract they sign. However a minor can still open a stall and sell stuff, and pay sales tax on it etc, as well as register copyrights and stuff.
Either way, none of it applies to swapping coins on web forums.
are we done with this yet. If you are swapping with any age here you don't know or have heard anything about. Or just started , well there no free lunch. Me if iam not sure, I will talk to them. and will look at there swap ratings and the people he as swapped with. May even talk to one or two of them. Hopefully it is someone we both swapped with. I have been taken more by the 20 to 30 year olds. Should we put a wronging on there account too. Just pull up your big boy under wear and deal with it. Or big girl underwear. Take reasonability for yourself .
Quote: "Steve27"Here in the US we have a series of regulations called the Uniform Commercial Code or UCC. It specifies that people under the age of 18 cannot enter into binding contracts for items other than necessities. And while coins may be a necessity for some of us, the US courts wouldn't see it that way.
The UCC governs commercial/business transactions. It does cover personal property, but this refers to property (generally real estate) becoming a security. (eg. A mortgage or loan you take on your property).
The reason why people do not like to do business with minors is as you say, because they can just disaffirm any contract they sign. However a minor can still open a stall and sell stuff, and pay sales tax on it etc, as well as register copyrights and stuff.
Either way, none of it applies to swapping coins on web forums.
UCC covers all contracts, commercial/business/personal, and a swap is just a contract where the consideration is not cash (which is not handled any differently than cash under the law). I don't sell/swap/trade with minors, unless their guardians are present.
I agree here with Steve27 for him it works, Steve27 if I can say a upper collector. You are rarely trading Belgium 1 franc coins from 1980's what have been circulated. You are a stage were everything as a higher value. And you have to take care of yourself. Were very few beginner are at.
I don't think we can generalize to say that teenaged swappers are any more likely to be scammers than adults. (If anything, they are far more likely to be victims of a scam just based on inexperience and potentially general naivete.) And in the case of a scammer, the same recourse is available as with adult scammers - negative feedback and eventual shunning from the site.
Yes Jesse11 the beginner is offend taken. Sad to say it part of the learning experience. You have to work in your comfort zone. You have to decide what works for you. What works for you will not work for others. There is not just one thing that will work for everyone. I work with a 13 year old who knew more than me. It is all a case by case deal. And like I said I have been taken more by the age group 20 to 30 year olds. So it up to you.
Quote: "Steve27"Here in the US we have a series of regulations called the Uniform Commercial Code or UCC. It specifies that people under the age of 18 cannot enter into binding contracts for items other than necessities. And while coins may be a necessity for some of us, the US courts wouldn't see it that way.
The US being one of two hundred countries. Most places don't have such strict laws.
Quote: "Steve27"Here in the US we have a series of regulations called the Uniform Commercial Code or UCC. It specifies that people under the age of 18 cannot enter into binding contracts for items other than necessities. And while coins may be a necessity for some of us, the US courts wouldn't see it that way.
The US being one of two hundred countries. Most places don't have such strict laws.
All the more reason why a simple "Young Numismatist" indication on a profile, would be an unobtrusive way of providing the necessary information for those who need it.
Quote: "Steve27"Here in the US we have a series of regulations called the Uniform Commercial Code or UCC. It specifies that people under the age of 18 cannot enter into binding contracts for items other than necessities. And while coins may be a necessity for some of us, the US courts wouldn't see it that way.
The US being one of two hundred countries. Most places don't have such strict laws.
All the more reason why a simple "Young Numismatist" indication on a profile, would be an unobtrusive way of providing the necessary information for those who need it.
I'm ok with putting "young numismat". I assume that will be until 18 years?
So long as we can see the age range of everyone else... I'd like to know if I'm dealing with someone beyond 65years... they could be forgetful and just as unreliable as a naive 15 year old ... does this sound silly ? I hope so ! :)
Quote: "Steve27"Here in the US we have a series of regulations called the Uniform Commercial Code or UCC. It specifies that people under the age of 18 cannot enter into binding contracts for items other than necessities. And while coins may be a necessity for some of us, the US courts wouldn't see it that way.
The US being one of two hundred countries. Most places don't have such strict laws.
All the more reason why a simple "Young Numismatist" indication on a profile, would be an unobtrusive way of providing the necessary information for those who need it.
I'm ok with putting "young numismat". I assume that will be until 18 years?
So long as we can see the age range of everyone else... I'd like to know if I'm dealing with someone beyond 65years... they could be forgetful and just as unreliable as a naive 15 year old ... does this sound silly ? I hope so ! :)
To me, it just sounds like you don't understand this has nothing to do with level of maturity and only legal issues.
Quote: "Steve27"Here in the US we have a series of regulations called the Uniform Commercial Code or UCC. It specifies that people under the age of 18 cannot enter into binding contracts for items other than necessities. And while coins may be a necessity for some of us, the US courts wouldn't see it that way.
The US being one of two hundred countries. Most places don't have such strict laws.
All the more reason why a simple "Young Numismatist" indication on a profile, would be an unobtrusive way of providing the necessary information for those who need it.
I'm ok with putting "young numismat". I assume that will be until 18 years?
So long as we can see the age range of everyone else... I'd like to know if I'm dealing with someone beyond 65years... they could be forgetful and just as unreliable as a naive 15 year old ... does this sound silly ? I hope so ! :)
To me, it just sounds like you don't understand this has nothing to do with level of maturity and only legal issues.
What I'm alluding to is how do i know whether the person I'm dealing with is not senile by suggesting the over 65yr olds. Legally speaking, shouldn't I know if I'm dealing with someone of sound mind
anyways, this is all moot and you are free to ask someone their age and swap or not with them. I don't think most people on this forum will go for the idea of slapping a badge on young collectors (basically penalizing them for being honest)
Ive given my 2 cents and saying anything more is simply going in circles. Eitherways, it's been an eye opener
1- Kids lie to get Facebook accounts everyday. Age is verifiable, but you will lose many members doing so.
2- It isn't about kids scamming adults, it's about adults being able to scam kids. Adults could potentially pressure or talk kids into swaps which are unfair. This is why an 'under 18' (or 21 or whatever) badge is a bad idea. It puts a target on less experienced collectors for those less scrupulous 'traders' who are here to scam others.
If the minors are marked by Numista and then exploited, Numista could then be sued... all over the world.
Worst idea ever!
I translate through Yandex. All languages are welcome.
I'd like to think that most adults on seeing a YN tag would go out of their way to give a great deal rather than their eyes lighting up at the opportunity to swindle them. Has our society become so debased and devoid of decency?
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Quote: "pnightingale"I'd like to think that most adults on seeing a YN tag would go out of their way to give a great deal rather than their eyes lighting up at the opportunity to swindle them. Has our society become so debased and devoid of decency?
Quote: "pnightingale"I'd like to think that most adults on seeing a YN tag would go out of their way to give a great deal rather than their eyes lighting up at the opportunity to swindle them. Has our society become so debased and devoid of decency?
