Yemen Civil War coinage ? [solved]

Hi all,
I get this coin Yemen 1 Rial 1385/1965 Winston Churchill, only information about this one I find in krause unusual coins as fantasy issue - Royalist Government in Exile. But in my opinion it should be considered as Yemen Civil War coinage Why? Let see some facts The coin was mint under Imam Badr - he was the last king of Yemen. He ruled Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen. He took the power after death of his father in September 1962 . He appointed Abdullah al-Sallala as General of his troops. Sallala cuple days later made a coup and founded Yemen Arab Republic. Civil war broke out. On the one side royalist with Imam Badr supported by Saudi family while on opposite corner Sallal supported by Egypt. Conflict continued periodically until 1967 but the fights was until 1970 when peace was made and other nations recognize independence YAR.

Goining to conclude :
Civili war starts in 1962 and end when they make peace and other nation recognise independency of YAR in 1970
This coin was minted in 1965 so it fits in Civili War time.
Why this coin is Exonumia while others aren't - For example Coins from Spain - Civil War ( could provide more examples)

In my opinion this coin should be treat as Yemen Civil War coin. I dont want to create a new country - not sure where this coin should belong to but defnitly not in Exonumia and Krause is mistaken. Please correct me if im wrong.
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My sources :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Yemen_Civil_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_al-Sallal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen_Arab_Republic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutawakkilite_Kingdom_of_Yemen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Yemen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Badr

Regards,
Damian

You should try to contact authors to promote its move to SCWC20.

Your facts about the politics of the Yemeni Civil War are correct but I believe the coin never saw circulation in the country but was made basically for publicity and to enrich the agents who engaged in a contract to produce it for the Yemeni royalists. This would be much in line with stamps produced at the same time for the royalists, which also never saw usage in the country and are not generally recognized by stamp catalogues.

Will

Maybe (a new) referee can tell something more: https://en.numista.com/echanges/profil.php?id=21219

Quote: "Coinman48"​Your facts about the politics of the Yemeni Civil War are correct but I believe the coin never saw circulation in the country but was made basically for publicity and to enrich the agents who engaged in a contract to produce it for the Yemeni royalists. This would be much in line with stamps produced at the same time for the royalists, which also never saw usage in the country and are not generally recognized by stamp catalogues.
​
​Will

Hi Will, I believe you might be right, this coin probably was not used in circulation so it's different then Spain Civil War. This coin commemorate death of Churchill as same as this one https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces6898.html so i think it was issued in UK

I also think it is not civil war coinage because it's clearly not a circulating coin. And actually there was no exile government, if I understood it right. Muhammad al-Badr had to go to exile but the Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen did not exist anymore in 1965. So I think it is exonumia, if you look at the other Yemenite coins from the same time you will see that those coins look completely different, more like coins from 1850 in my opinion . So that would be one more argument for it being made by someone else, like GB who supported al-Badr's side of the war.

OK, so no more reason to support any move I guess

Quote: "DonChori"​I also think it is not civil war coinage because it's clearly not a circulating coin. And actually there was no exile government, if I understood it right. Muhammad al-Badr had to go to exile but the Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen did not exist anymore in 1965. So I think it is exonumia, if you look at the other Yemenite coins from the same time you will see that those coins look completely different, more like coins from 1850 in my opinion . So that would be one more argument for it being made by someone else, like GB who supported al-Badr's side of the war.

If we accept that end of Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen was in 1962 when al-Badr father died then yes not exist in 1965 . But al-Badr took power from his father so he was an heir of Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen. al-Badr took power after his father death in september 1962 couple days later Sallala made a coup and declared YAR and Civil War starts. I think we could say that during fight for the crown there was MKY as same as YAR . Some countries recognize Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen as sovereign country until 1970. So on other hand Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen exist until 1970. So it is possible to count this coin as Civil War coinage.

​Yes, that is a question if this coin was in circulation or no. In Yemenite states coins are completly different but if you dig in al-Badr history you will know he was a big supporter of reform and if you look in YAR commemo coin are little simmilar to that 1 Rial but any find during civil war.
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BTW found this letter on the coins i think it could be a mint mark - any idea?


Can you read this arabic inscription?

Find more info about this one coin :
Reference: KM-.
Condition: A nice AU-UNC!
Mint Year: 1965 (AH 1385)
Denomination: Silver Riyal (Royalist Coinage) - Winston Churchill Commemorative!
Material: Silver (.720)
Weight: 25.03gm
Diameter: 36mm

Obverse: Bust of Sir Winston Churchill. Bi-lingual inscription around.
Legend: IN MEMORIAM SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL 1965 . 1975


Reverse: Crowned coat-of-arms of the Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen, surrounded by bi-lingual inscription.
Comment: Finneness (720), value (ONE RIAL) and arabic date (1385) in fields.


The Milwaukee Journal of May 29, 1966, comments on this coin: Churchill Coin Is Released by Yemen Royalists - A SILVER rial honoring the late Sir Winston Churchill has been released by the Royal Yemen govern ment, which is seeking to up set the Yemen Arab Republic. The coin is reported to be legal tender in areas under Royalist control. A likeness of Sir Winston appears on the Obverse, with appropriate inscription...

The rest you can find under link below:
Source:
http://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=139123

I already changed the coin sheet, there you can see the lettering, it's not really different from the English one. On the obverse it says "Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen" and on the reverse it calles Churchill "Man of peace".
This coin surely did not circulate, the coins that were circulating in this time were emitted by Yemen Arab Republic. You can see that the mintage number of this coin was 6000 and it was only one coin (no coin series) and the coin is 25g silver - so no way that it circulated.
But the question is if it was made with an agreement of al-Badr or without his knowledge, I can't tell. But in the Schön catalog the coin is listed as a normal commemorative coin under the kingdom and Mohammed al-Badr.

Quote: "DonChori"​I already changed the coin sheet, there you can see the lettering, it's not really different from the English one. On the obverse it says "Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen" and on the reverse it calles Churchill "Man of peace".
​This coin surely did not circulate, the coins that were circulating in this time were emitted by Yemen Arab Republic. You can see that the mintage number of this coin was 6000 and it was only one coin (no coin series) and the coin is 25g silver - so no way that it circulated.
​But the question is if it was made with an agreement of al-Badr or without his knowledge, I can't tell. But in the Schön catalog the coin is listed as a normal commemorative coin under the kingdom and Mohammed al-Badr.

​Thanks for explanation. i found also information at zeno.ru
that this coin commemorating W. Churchill never circulated in Yemen.
The coin is reported to be legal tender in areas under Royalist control
In 1970, despite the fact that territorially most of the Yemen remained under the control of al-Badr and the Hamid al-Din family, Saudi Arabia, which had been the principal opponent of the Sana'a regime, recognized the Yemen Arab Republic and other nations like the United Kingdom swiftly followed suit.

In my opinion this is
A legal tender coin in areas under Royalist control during civil war but as you said never circulated in Yemen.
Get also information that minted in Paris, i will try to ask at monnaie de paris if they could provide more details.
source:
http://www.zeno.ru/showgallery.php?cat=3537

Well, seems like it really has to be moved to Yemenite states - Riyal (Mutawakkilite kingdom of Yemen, 1904-1963). Even if on the coin it says "Rial", not "Riyal"...

Yes, exactly. This coin should be rewared alongside with other Mutawakkilite kingdom of Yemen coins even if it is completly different design. Should there be also note or something that inform members about origin of this coin. If gain more details i will let you know.
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First i was mad on myself that i bought that coin as i thought it was a "fantasy coin" but after some investigation - facts just dont fit. I know that winners write the history but this coin shouldn't be treated as fantasy.

I moved that coin to Yemenite States
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Also found this photo

I found and purchased this coin today at my local antique/coin shop in upstate South Carolina.
I love Islamic coins. I was actually more interested in the reverse and the fact it was labeled Yemen, than the in the (somber looking) bust of Churchill. I didn't know any of the background on the coin. But it was labeled as .720 silver w/ a low mintage of 6,000 and that it was never meant for circulation and distributed by the Saudis.
So all that intrigued me. And it was priced $20. I thought that seemed like a deal (esp considering the size & condition).
But after getting home, I couldn't find it in any of my books. Thankfully the info in the previous posts helped me alot !!