Unsure about weight on 1914 China yuan

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tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 17:23 #

On this website, it says that this yuan should weigh 26.4 grams, yet mine weighs 27.1 grams. That's quite a bit of difference. Could it be that I have a fake? Or could it be that the weight was entered incorrectly into the website?

kolikko99

Closed account

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 17:53 #

200% fake coin no doubt

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 17:57 #

How can you tell for sure? Just based on the weight that I gave you?

kolikko99

Closed account

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 17:58 #

this is the most faked coin ever and that doesn't look like siver and on top of all it's the wrong weight.
there are probably more fakes than real ones of this coin

kolikko99

Closed account

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 18:00 #

you can buy these from aliexpress

http://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1919-Ancient-Antique-China-Silver-Dollar-Coins-Yuan-Shikai-Fat-Man-reproduction/735001662.html

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 18:02 #

Hmm got mine from a local coin shop. Looks like I'll have to return it. Thanks for the help!

eazy.dog

Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 723

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 18:09 #

hi, do you have try a another scale?

your coin dont look like a fake to me, hard to say...
about weight, take a look here for exemple ;

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=283&lot=4319

bbybugs Catalogue referee

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 793

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 18:39 #

It looks real.

In that time, technology of manufacturing coin in China was not as precision, a few tenths of grams is normal range.

share you my two "fat man" for comparison

kolikko99

Closed account

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 18:44 #

0.6 grams is pretty much extra

eazy.dog

Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 723

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 18:53 #

https://beldeu.wordpress.com/2014/04/01/weights-of-chinese-silver-dollars-and-taels/

QuoteINTRODUCTION
One often comes across coins of China with different weights even when they are of the same design – eg Yuan Shih Kai silver dollar or Hung Shien dollar with the flying dragon on the obverse. The Krause catalogs tend to state the ‘correct weight” as 27.0 grams but this is not always so, and these may be official weights. The weights of China coins tends to vary . Some coins may weigh at 27.18 while others only weigh around 26.67 grams or 26.68 grams and some weigh 26.7 grams (eg dragon coin with large clouds). Some Chinese catalogs catalogs state the different weights (for coins with diameter varying from 38.0mm to 39.5mm). For instance the Hung Shien Flying Dollar is listed as weighing at 28.82 grams, 27.0 grams, 26.68 grams and 26.4 grams. Some of these coins come within the tolerance limit while others may weigh at 26.38 – 26.45 grams. The Yun-Nan mint also made crown size dollars on a thinner planchet sometimes weighing only 22.6 grams. Yet other struck coins appear at around 25.0 grams, though the official weight is 25.8 grams. After the death of Yuan Shih Kai, mints associated with certain warlords also produced dollar coins using base silver of fineness at .884 and some of these weigh only 24.6 grams.

While coin dealers usually talk about a standard weight such as 26.7 grams and a variation as within an acceptable limit called the tolerance limit, a numismatic study of small hoards of coins from attics ranging from 30-290 showed that China coins have a range from 26.1 grams to 27.14 grams with three peaks, at 26.45, 26.67 and 26.95 grams. Most of the coins are distributed around 26.67 and at around 26.45-26.56 grams. Such studies reveal that there is a significant variation in standard deviation of coin weights about the mean, which is not, strictly speaking, the tolerance limit. This is simply because, for a long time, mints struggled to produce coins of a standard weight with a small tolerance limit, which is in fact, a small standard deviation about the standard weight, but there are other factors that influenced coin weights over time.

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 19:23 #

So how do I know for sure if my coin is real or not?

kolikko99

Closed account

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 19:28 #

do the ice test

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 19:32 #

And that's putting a piece of ice on the coin and if it melts right away it's silver, right? Is that how you do it?

kolikko99

Closed account

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 19:36 #

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic4060.html

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 19:46 #

Definitely Silver. That ice cube melted instantly and the whole coin was freezing cold!

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 20:00 #

So that means it's not plated and it's real silver?

kolikko99

Closed account

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 20:10 #

yup it's silver

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 21:12 #

So that gives it a higher chance of it being real?

Fluke

Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 1864

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 21:35 #

Quote: kolikko99yup it's silver

*Passes spoon for words

#JustMessing

Silver has a unique tone when you flip it (like for a coin toss, heads or tails) its like a mini bell sound, whereas non silver makes a higher pitched dull metal on metal kind of sound.

I bought a fake 1822 crown just so I could use it as a comparison as I went through a stage of buying a lot of them. very distinctive difference with the coin toss ring sound, the comparison coin needs to be roughly the same size and thickness.

Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 21:45 #

I'm aware of this higher pitched bell ring. Thank you for the tip though!

Fluke

Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 1864

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 22:35 #

My point was to get a confirmed fake coin and do the test.

Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal

Dato Mikeladze

Joined: 25 Mar 2014
Posts: 2423

Posted: 10 Jul 2015, 23:50 #

for eye looks like genuine.
what about edge?
Regarding metall test, I would say that there are plenty of silver coins, whioch are also fakes.

Most Italian Somaliland and Eritrea coins are made by silver, but 70%   or more are fakes.
A lot of Albanian silvers as well.
I had silver Fuad Egypt 20 piastres, whicvh was fake, but made   of silver

Difficult to say base only on metall.

If metal is not silver - its 100% fake. But if metall is silver it doesnot mean that coin is genuin ( unfortunately) /

but this one looks like genuine for me... lets   look at the edge

Fluke

Joined: 22 Mar 2015
Posts: 1864

Posted: 11 Jul 2015, 00:48 #

That is a very good point, the fake crown I got had a flat plain edge.

Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 11 Jul 2015, 04:59 #

I've looked at the edge and it's reeded and all of the reeds seem pretty even and none of them overlap or are too far apart.

Dato Mikeladze

Joined: 25 Mar 2014
Posts: 2423

Posted: 11 Jul 2015, 09:28 #

Do you know , that " Iliad" and " Odyssey" have not been written by Homerus, but by another blind guy with same name ?

So, if the edge is nice, if the coin is silver, if the weight is more or less correct, and, if You like it at all - Man, just enjoy it  !!!

Yours,
david

Dutchgalego

Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1132

Posted: 11 Jul 2015, 10:09 #

Quote: tyler0106How can you tell for sure? Just based on the weight that I gave you?

Last year I did had two of those, both magnetic, both much heavier, both fake.
Further on I do have an extensive collection of Chinese Empire coins, all fake.

Perhaps I should say, that lots and lots of those Emperial silver coins were melted during the Mao Tse Tung regime. The melting already started in period before Mao. Those coins who escaped the melt pot are nowadays extremely expensive and belong to private collectors, most of them experts on Chinese silver.
I 'm glad to have a couple of those collectors as friend, but I'm less happier with their expertise (nobody likes to hear that his coins are fake).

Anyway, may you have a "real" one than you're a lucky man.

Cents are money too!

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 11 Jul 2015, 17:04 #

Quote: Dato MikeladzeDo you know , that " Iliad" and " Odyssey" have not been written by Homerus, but by another blind guy with same name ?

So, if the edge is nice, if the coin is silver, if the weight is more or less correct, and, if You like it at all - Man, just enjoy it  !!!

Yours,
david

I am trying to sell the coin, so I just wanted to be completely sure that it was real. I would like to enjoy it though if I were keeping it.

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 11 Jul 2015, 17:04 #

Quote: Dutchgalego
Quote: tyler0106How can you tell for sure? Just based on the weight that I gave you?
Last year I did had two of those, both magnetic, both much heavier, both fake.
Further on I do have an extensive collection of Chinese Empire coins, all fake.

Perhaps I should say, that lots and lots of those Emperial silver coins were melted during the Mao Tse Tung regime. The melting already started in period before Mao. Those coins who escaped the melt pot are nowadays extremely expensive and belong to private collectors, most of them experts on Chinese silver.
I 'm glad to have a couple of those collectors as friend, but I'm less happier with their expertise (nobody likes to hear that his coins are fake).

Anyway, may you have a "real" one than you're a lucky man.

haha So I guess the odds of me owning a real one is kind of low?

Dutchgalego

Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Posts: 1132

Posted: 12 Jul 2015, 20:17 #

Yes the chance that you coin isn't fake, its very, very low.

It's not that bad if the coin is made of silver or even have a thin silver layer and you want to add you to your collection. On the other side if you want to sell it, than you really have a problem.

How did you got that coin?

Cents are money too!

tyler0106

Joined: 29 Aug 2014
Posts: 21

Posted: 12 Jul 2015, 22:19 #

I got the coin from a local coin shop that is pretty reputable

KennyG

Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5287

Posted: 13 Jul 2015, 00:25 #

I would say real, the wear and strike look normal

Kenny

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