Numista catalog rare rating 1-100

Hello,

Could anyone tell me how accurate the rareness rating is outside of the Numista catalog?

As I understand it, the rating is based on what people have listed here for coins.

Thank you.

It's not accurate at all.  It's based on how many members have the coin.  This site is mainly a French site so some of the early French coins would likely have a low rarity rating, whereas coins from other areas that don't have as many members but are pretty easy to get may have a really high rarity rating

its a feature that nobody needs and has absolutly 0 numismatic value.

 Where can one get an accurate reading regarding coin rareness?

  Is there a website,book,or catalog for this?

  Cheers

a good indicator is the mintagenumber and the amount of the potential collectors

Quote: DuzmondWhere can one get an accurate reading regarding coin rareness?

  Is there a website,book,or catalog for this?

  Cheers

The mintage number and the periode when the coin was minted are good indicators.
Silver and gold coin from previous centuries were oftenly called back just to melt and mint new ones. That will increase the rarity.

Hi,

that Index is complete nonsense indicator, and further it's only connected to the km-type and NOT the year

Ole

Quote: Sjoelundand further it's only connected to the km-type and NOT the year

Agree totally, I have an uncirculated Norway 1927 1 Krone coin.  If you look at the numista rarity rating then it looks as common as muck because it has a numista rarity rating of only 10.  But the catalogue clearly says "rare" beside the 1927 coin and it's catalogue value is around $550

Quote: neilithicAgree totally, I have an uncirculated Norway 1927 1 Krone coin.  If you look at the numista rarity rating then it looks as common as muck because it has a numista rarity rating of only 10.  But the catalogue clearly says "rare" beside the 1927 coin and it's catalogue value is around $550

 What value catalog do you mean? Is it online or something you can purchase?

The Krause catalogue is the standard one used.  It's not overly accurate for sale prices since some coins that are popular will have a higher sale price than catalogue value and ones that are not popular will have a lower sale price than the catalogue value.  But it does give you a rough guide of what the coin is worth.

The NGC site uses the Krause valuations, here's the link to their site

http://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/

Of course it's a useful feature, keep in mind that there are people here that doesn't know the Krause catalog by heart and can identify any coin at a glance.

The rarity index isn't exactly accurate but it can give you a hint as long as you keep certain factors in mind. A few has already been mentioned, and also very new coins have higher index since they're not as interesting to collectors and haven't had time to spread yet. Depending on where you live coins from countries closer to you are probably less rare where you live than they are on this site, and so on..

And as you all already should know rarity isn't necessarily the same thing as value, so it shouldn't be trusted as a price indicator, but for me a rarity index at 10 at least tells me I shouldn't buy a Norway 1927 1 Krone for $550. I don't care about year so that coin *is* common as muck, I got a circulated 1925 for almost nothing instead and I'm happy with that.

It may be useless to you guys but not to everybody.

I would agree with deft, I also collect by type not year, and must admit that Rarity Index is not the "Bible" of coin collecting, but it is pretty useful to me at least. When I get a coin, or want to get or buy a coin, first I look it on Numista, second I look it on NGC, and than at Ebay, current listings, and than on sold ones as well. I look up in this exact order.

I think the Numista rarity index is useful for finding out how desirable the coins you put up for swap will be, and it helps type collectors even despite the French/European bias (so many modern non-circulating French commemoratives with such low indexes... ).

If I could suggest a change, I would find a more transparent way of displaying how many users have the coin. Not everybody will realize that the scale is logarithmic, so the number seems arbitrary. It's already easy to tell that 100 is 0 and 97 is 1, why not make it easier. (Maybe it could display: "[some number] users have this type of coin in their collection - for perspective, the most common coin on Numista is [some French coin, probably] with [some other number] owners.")

The numista index is complete bs. And when i read "i am not spending 500 bucks" because the holy numistaindex shows a 10 i can only shake my head about such stupidity.

I hope you ignorant i**** gets offered a 2007 grace kelly for 500 bucks, check up numistarating and turn down the offerr because its only a 68 rating.

Quote: MuenzenhamsterThe numista index is complete bs. And when i read "i am not spending 500 bucks" because the holy numistaindex shows a 10 i can only shake my head about such stupidity.

I hope you ignorant i**** gets offered a 2007 grace kelly for 500 bucks, check up numistarating and turn down the offerr because its only a 68 rating.

Are you trolling or did you really fail to understand this? The index tells us how common a certain TYPE is, just because you happen to bother with years as well doesn't make it complete bs. The world is - believe it or not - bigger than your head.

The only reason for me to pay a ridiculous amount of money for a rare year would be to sell it again and make a profit, that's a completely different thing. I would never pay $500 for that coin just to keep it in my own collection. It can't be that difficult to understand?

Quote: deftAre you trolling or did you really fail to understand this? The index tells us how common a certain TYPE is, just because you happen to bother with years as well doesn't make it complete bs. The world is - believe it or not - bigger than your head.

The only reason for me to pay a ridiculous amount of money for a rare year would be to sell it again and make a profit, that's a completely different thing. I would never pay $500 for that coin just to keep it in my own collection. It can't be that difficult to understand?

I'm sorry to say that it's actually you that doesn't understand the rarity rating here, numismatically it means nothing. It's just a fun statistic that shows how many people on this site own the coin.

For example this coin has a rarity index of 83. Which probably means that someone has bought the proof coin because it's not yet been released into circulation. Once it's released into circulation, and people add it to their catalogues, the rarity index will reduce. If everyone on the site ends up getting one, the rarity index will probably drop down to 0.

I'm not saying that the rarity index is completely useless, but it shouldn't be used as a guideline when purchasing coins. It has nothing to do with mintage figures, nothing to do with the year of mintage, and nothing to do with the worth of a coin, it's solely based on how many members on this site have it.

Nalaberong explains it perfectly.

Sorry BizzoDoes I'm not even sure what we're disagreeing on, in my first post I'm saying pretty much the same thing as you are. It's a useful feature if you know what it is but it's not the one and only answer to the price of a coin.

It can be used as a guideline though for us who collects by type, a very low index tells me I shouldn't pay a lot for it (if it is worth a lot because of low mintage that year I should probably get another year) and a very high index tells me I probably will have to pay a little more for it. I think this is pretty obvious so I don't even know why we have this discussion

Since many beginners read here, i again point out. Its a absolut meaningless "indicator" and should not be considered at all for any of your decisions.

Quote: MuenzenhamsterSince many beginners read here, i again point out. Its a absolut meaningless "indicator" and should not be considered at all for any of your decisions.

haha well if you say so

I can only again agree with Muenzenhamster, the index is of no use on a type level, and on the year level it's no good, since it only takes the very small statistical population of Numista's collectors, where most just collect one coin per type(;0 nothing wrong with that, of course

Ole

One good example will be this coin.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces2121.html

The Index for this coin is 11 with 26 years of mint and about 5 Billions produced, the Year 13 (2001) is so scarce that you can buy it at around 600 Yens....

I will agree with the index rate but it should also highlight which coins are scarce, removed from the market etc.

Cheers

Really that becomes the issue...essentially on Numista people collect certain things which gives inflated index numbers. Some are semi accurate but most I dont look at. I consult other sources. I would honestly rather have it removed unless it comes with a X amount of people have it. I can see how many people have any given coin for Germany but thats it. I actually find that info pretty amazing. Like when I see a coin I can only dream about and there are 10 people on Numista with it...I feel like maybe I can get one someday too :)

An other good exemple:

https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces5157.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces4383.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3772.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces2035.html

I have these coins from year 1997, with only 350 or 1800 minted !
Whereas the index is 15...

There should be an index for each year, it would be truer.

Hi Ducatx,

if any index should be there, it should really only be at the year level

As said earlier we are too few in the numista group to be able to make a statistical reliable index on ANYTHING

Ole

Why are you even talking about years, it's a rarity index PER TYPE, of course it doesn't tell you anything about rarity for individual years! It also doesn't tell you today's weather or next week winning lottery numbers, why would it??

Take it for what it is: a crude rarity index for the type, and whether you like it or not it is useful to some (if you know its limitations) so why can't you just accept that? Don't use it if you don't like it but don't say it's completely useless because it's so obviously isn't!

Hi Deft,

OK, if it's usefull for some people it doesn't give me any problems, since I never look at it, since it's what it is.

Anyway I don't gamble and by looking out of my windows I can see how the weather is, strange subject for your index?

Ole

@deft

after browsing  trough your "connoisseurs " collection i would recommend that you switch to copper roof gutters or something similiar. You would get more bang for the buck.

http://www.finanzen.at/rohstoffe

The icing on the cake, it would be a numistarating of 97!

Quote: deftWhy are you even talking about years, it's a rarity index PER TYPE, of course it doesn't tell you anything about rarity for individual years! It also doesn't tell you today's weather or next week winning lottery numbers, why would it??

Take it for what it is: a crude rarity index for the type, and whether you like it or not it is useful to some (if you know its limitations) so why can't you just accept that? Don't use it if you don't like it but don't say it's completely useless because it's so obviously isn't!

What about taking a chill pill... It is an open conversation about how does it works for someone and how does not for others...

Do you even think it will change because 4-10 people comment about it.

This index is based on the data of Numista members collection. it ranges from 0 to 100, 0 meaning a pretty common coin and 100 meaning a pretty rare coin.

...

I didn't pay $550 for the coin.  I got it in a bulk lot of Norway coins for $10 that also included some iron 1, 2 and 5 ore coins from world war 1, and some rare 1908 and 1915 1 ore coins  

But if I had just looked at the numista rarity rating and saw 10 I might have just discarded it thinking it was common as muck.  But because I rely on doing more research on the coins, using the FREE online coin valuation then I found out what I had.  My advice is to use the tools that are available to you.  It only takes a minute to look up the value.

If you don't collect by year it's still important (I don't collect by year).  If you pick up two coins of the same type in a bulk lot and one is in XF and one is in UNC you'd likely go for the nicest looking coin, but if you looked up the values and saw that the UNC coin was a common year and worth maybe a couple of dollars but the XF one was a rare year and worth a couple of hundred dollars which one would you keep?

Quote: neilithicIf you pick up two coins of the same type in a bulk lot and one is in XF and one is in UNC you'd likely go for the nicest looking coin, but if you looked up the values and saw that the UNC coin was a common year and worth maybe a couple of dollars but the XF one was a rare year and worth a couple of hundred dollars which one would you keep?

Would you keep the expensive XF one and get rid of the cheap UNC? Your aim is to collect as rare coins as possible? Well I understand you don't need the rarity index then, but 99/100 I'd keep the pretty one regardless of its value. In some extreme case I guess I'd try to sell a prettier one if I could make a lot of money from it but I'm not in this for the money so normally I wouldn't bother. As Muenzenhamster so delicately put it when he tried to provoke me or whatever that was I rarely deal with expensive coins, if I did I might put some time into research but where I am it just isn't worth it. I'd probably make more money if I spend that time at work, even if I miss an opportunity.. :)

There probably are better tools out there but the rarity index is still useful to me.

You and I are VERY different people.  I would never fob off an expensive coin in favour of a cheap pretty one.  The expensive coins are expensive for a reason.  They are hard to get and desirable by other collectors (some coins are rare but not desirable so do not command the same value) My goals is to get a collection I can be proud of, It sounds like you're more into magpie collecting...getting anything pretty and shiny.

Well I like coins, I think they are interesting with their history and so on, I like to have them. Purely economically a coin doesn't have any value unless I sell it, and to put it harshly boasting in front of other collectors would give me very little satisfaction, I collect for myself and not for anybody else's envy. For the same reason I'm not particularly interested in commemorative coins not intended for circulation (especially the ones with ridiculous face value), proof sets etc, coins that are only made for collectors. With the right wear I even like them circulated. Not exactly magpie collecting, I'd like nice details and age and such rather than just a number and some text on a shiny piece of round metal, but sure we can call it that.

But I understand the satisfaction you get from getting something rare, I would get exactly that from a rare type but not a rare year of a common type.

As the friend Muenzenhamster, described this index does not serve for absolutely nothing, not to have a sum total as the overall weight of the coins involved in the swap. Also catalogs prices do not want to put, which would help to swap at least to parameterize some swaps better, I think.

Quote: deftFor the same reason I'm not particularly interested in commemorative coins not intended for circulation (especially the ones with ridiculous face value), proof sets etc, coins that are only made for collectors.

I agree completely, but I would even have said "so called collectors".

Of course since I collect by year and mint, the raity of a type is of NO interest for me.

Ole

I have exactly same thing as Sjoelund.
I would like to see Numista rarity index for different years. The way it is now, i too find it useless....

  Any change would be better than this today, the suggestion is very good, also a percentage of how many collector coin has determined, by date, mintmark would be great too. But ...

I think that the issue with NRI is it's description which says "100 means pretty rare coin". This is misleading. Maybe it could be changed to something like "100 means rare among Numista users".

To go furher, I would be glad to see number of members who want to swap particular coin and number of members who have it on their wish lists instead of NRI.

From these I could read if my coin is desirable on this website and if coins I'd like to have are easy to get on this website.

What I'd like to say is that any index based on Numista members collections can only express availability (not rareness and certainly not value) of the coin.

    I use it only to tell if a coin is a good swapping coin. If it has a high number more people will be looking for it A low number most people have. And that will only work here. It only from what people here put in.  Nothing else.

That is why at some point I asked if users could see how many coins for each date of any coin are actually registered in Numista as in someones collection. But seems it is only a privilege Admins have.

It would be pretty useful; some coins do have a rarity comment for some key dates, but often the catalogs miss others that are rare in comparison to the more common dates.

I have a lot of 97s in my Mexico collection, but many aren't that rare, they aren't simply brought to Numista for exchanges. And considering 2/3rds of the catalog for Mexico are of recent addition (less than 1 year), and that I did add most so that I could register my own coins, having over 200 - 97s doesn't mean my collection is made of Ultra rares. But on a sense they are Ultra rare in Numista.

Quote: JustforFunDo you even think it will change because 4-10 people comment about it.

I think this topic should be moved to
 "Numista  website "  to be solved.

because  most of the recent topics under Numista  website has been solved within a few days.

Quote: adithyasraoI think this topic should be moved to
 "Numista  website "  to be solved.

 I moved topic now.  

Quote: adithyasraoI think this topic should be moved to
 "Numista  website "  to be solved.

because  most of the recent topics under Numista  website has been solved within a few days.

I'm selective in the sections I read  

Quote: lukderI think that the issue with NRI is it's description which says "100 means pretty rare coin". This is misleading. Maybe it could be changed to something like "100 means rare among Numista users".

I totally agree. I've clarified the description accordingly.

Great that's already better. Now... Any chance to make it show up as Numista rarity index for the different years of same coin?
So that 1933 megarare penny would have a different index than 1932 common one for example.

Quote: KartWayGreat that's already better. Now... Any chance to make it show up as Numista rarity index for the different years of same coin?
So that 1933 megarare penny would have a different index than 1932 common one for example.

I agree this would be an interesting feature. However, this is doable only for coins that are owned by many people, so that the figures are relevant.

Quote: Xavier

Quote: KartWayGreat that's already better. Now... Any chance to make it show up as Numista rarity index for the different years of same coin?
So that 1933 megarare penny would have a different index than 1932 common one for example.

I agree this would be an interesting feature. However, this is doable only for coins that are owned by many people, so that the figures are relevant.

Maybe it would be doable for Circulation coins only. As those are the ones in where rare years are really rare, as in most commemorative ones they tend to be short-minted for the profit of selling them. But all circulation coins are common and when a year is really rare due to a miss-mint, or some other reason, then it would be really relevant.

Also, doing so for post 1900 would be ideal as well, as antique coins (100+ years old) get rare because of the time passed and not because other reasons.

Quote: erdvillaBut all circulation coins are common and when a year is really rare due to a miss-mint, or some other reason, then it would be really relevant.

Not all the circulation coins are common. Try to collect, for example, all the coins of Guyana 1967-1992: they have big mintages, but you won't find most of them even in Guyana. Also, Krause catalogs contain lots of mistakes. Very often they tell about years of issue that never existed. So if no one at the site owns a specific year of issue, there's a strong possibility that this year doesn't exist.

Quote: ciscoins

Quote: erdvillaBut all circulation coins are common and when a year is really rare due to a miss-mint, or some other reason, then it would be really relevant.

Not all the circulation coins are common. Try to collect, for example, all the coins of Guyana 1967-1992: they have big mintages, but you won't find most of them even in Guyana. Also, Krause catalogs contain lots of mistakes. Very often they tell about years of issue that never existed. So if no one at the site owns a specific year of issue, there's a strong possibility that this year doesn't exist.

All the more reason why "quantity of numista users with this coin" by year should be published.

I personally use the Numista Rarity Index in a self-positioned good way. My idea here is something new and in the beginning I got several criticisms for this new rating system. I will explain:

Despite that this is mainly a French site, this is my main sitting place regarding numismatics. I have no other time to sit in other + other + other site where you spend months until all the coins are registered in and then you get mad because your list in (for example ) Numista does not mach anymore with the other lists! So - it does not count what happens in other sites/ rating pattern databases or what ever catalogs! All what matters is how good and FAIR you can swap here in Numista.

I rate coins by their Numista rarity Index multiplied by coin weight! By this kind of calculation you can quite closely (for Numista sociaty standards) and easily get also the total index of swap value (with many coins). Please check my profile info for fine detailed explanation. I am not a veteran, yet around 70 swaps already are perfectly finished by using this approach.

In the end I must say that indexes are many, catalogs and databases changes and we should use parameters of coin value wisely! I wish you all to find your parameters and to swap friendly!


Best regards!

Ugis