The original thread "How far back can we go?" was started by nalaberong, but the thread was taking too long to load so this new thread has been created from 1767
How far back can we go?
Reminder of the rules the rules... break them and suffer
We will start a new thread at the year 1767
- Today (October 1st) is a day where we post our coins from 1767.
- The next day (October 2nd) we go back one year to 1766. For all day on October 2nd, all members can post a coin from 1766. This means we will see many coins from 1766 instead of just one.
- We will keep this format (a new day, a new year) going for as long as we are able to. If no coin is posted on one day, the year does NOT advance as we are trying to get one of every date.
- The same member cannot post more than one coin consecutively. However, if there have been three posts since that member's last post, that member is allowed to post another coin of the same year.
- This will be important once we get really far back: Dateless two-year, three-year, four-year types are right out - either the date is printed on the coin (other eras are fine, but you must be able to convert them) or the coin can be attributed to only one year despite having no date.
- The new day is determined by me, because this is completely arbitrary and I started the thread in the first place. Midnight, MDT (GMT -7:00) is the time when the new day starts. Let me know if you'd like a different time-zone.
"Celui qui combat des monstres doit prendre garde à ne pas devenir monstre lui-même. Si tu contemples longtemps un abîme, l’abîme aussi regarde en toi." N.
Ex-référent/modérateur/administrateur à la retraite
Austrian Netherlands, half Kronenthaler, Franz I, husband of Maria Theresia and emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. From 1755 to 1765, two Kronenthaler types were minted. The more frequent one had the name of Maria Theresia mentioned in the legend, along with her titles. The edge reads: Iustitia et Clementia. On the reverse it has a Burgundy cross with four crowns. This one has three crowns and the golden fleece in the lower sector and it has the flames in the middle of the cross, indicative of the emperor. The edge reads: "In te Domine speravi".
It is somehow peculiar for Franz I to choose a motto expressing hope and expectation in the Lord, since he was a notorious free-mason (whereas Maria Theresia was Catholic). Enough 18th century gossip for now: here's the coin.
Obverse: Coat of arms of the Hapsburg royals, with the double headed eagle behind:
Reverse: Modified Burgundy cross with 3 crowns and the Golden fleece:
1758 also was the first year Kronenthalers were minted in Brussels (Angelface mintmark on the obverse). The first few years the Antwerp mint produced these coins. One set of dies of the 1758 Maria Theresia Kronenthaler with the Antwerp mintmark has been used. That variety is considered rare.
I'm patiently waiting at the side line with my 1755 coin, hoping for somebody to post a 1756. Did we get stuck?
The news has been spread that the early 1750's should be no problem.
Quote: GwydeI'm patiently waiting at the side line with my 1755 coin, hoping for somebody to post a 1756. Did we get stuck?
The news has been spread that the early 1750's should be no problem.
My 1756 is very poor and I was hoping someone would post a better example.
A 5 euro silver commemorative (250th anniversary) was also minted that year: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces10831.html
At the left of the obverse, you find the years of his birth and death (1756 and 1791)
The first few years this coin has been minted in Antwerp (hence the 'hand' mintmark at the top of the reverse). Since the empress is not depicted, I consider the side with the Hapsburg coat of arms as the obverse. On the Joseph II Kronenthaler the side with the Burgundy cross was maintained and the emperor was depicted, replacing the Hapsburg coat of arms.
Obverse: Coat of arms of the Hapsburg family, with the imperial double headed eagle behind;
Lettering: ARCH·AUST·DUX·BURG·BRAB·COM·FLAND·
Reverse: Burgundy cross, with four crowns in each of the sectors.
Lettering: MAR·THERESIA D:G·R·IMP·GERM·HUNG·BOH·REG
Edge lettering (raised): JUSTITIA ET CLEMENTIA (Justice and Mercy). It was the personal motto of Maria Theresia. The Latin abbreviations of the titles on both sides were more or less standard.
During the early 1750's the Principate of Liège minted copper liards and its multiples, silver escalins and double escalins. Ruler: John Theodore of Bavaria, Prince-Bishop of Liège.
For 1752, I have a liard and double liard (the more common of the above).
Apparently no other 1752 coins show up. That year is like a cluster in my collection, so I feel I ought to post some more.
Austrian Netherlands, Escalin (in French) or Schelling (Dutch). (You recognise the English "shilling").
The Schelling used to be a common circulation silver coin, 5 g on average, with a 0.59 fineness.
Quote: TheChemistGwyde, your Austrian silver continues to impress!
The end is near for my collection of the Austrian Netherlands: The father of Maria-Theresia, emperor Charles VI, inherited sovereignty over the Austrian Netherlands at the end of the Spanish succession war in 1713. He never devoted much concern to that remote impoverished western region and old currency, minted under Spanish rule continued to circulate. Minting of copper coinage was resumed only in 1744, a few years after Maria Theresia succeeded her father. Silver coinage was started in 1749.
As for 1751, I have a chunky copper 4 Liards coin from the Liège Principate, minted under the rule of John Theodor of Bavaria, who was elected Prince-Bishop in 1744. The 4 Liards coin fills a hole in the value chain: there are billion coins of 10 and 14 liards, while the silver escalin was equivalent to 24 liards. Nevertheless this only is a three year issue. It has no equivalent in the Austrian Netherlands.
Obverse: Value indication 4 left and unit 'L' right of the heraldic shield.
Lettering: I·THEOD·CAR·D·G·BAV·D· (Johann Theodorus Cardinalis Dei Gratia, Bavariae Dux)
Reverse: Year 1751, with one digit in each of the quadrants. The small shields are indicative of the regions of the Principate.
Lettering: EP·ET·PRIN·LEO·DVX·B·M·F·C·L·H· (Episcopus et Princeps Leodiensis dux Bulloniensis Marchionis)
Bishop and Prince of Liège and Marquis of Bouillon.
The french revolution, spreading beyond its borders also meant the end for the prestigeous Principate. Civil and religious authority were to be separated from one another in the new era. Many abbeys and a few cathedrals were destroyed during those years.
In the Austrian Netherlands, silver coinage was started only in 1749. That's 36 years after the Holy Roman Empire was granted sovereignty over the counties that now cover Belgium, Luxemburg and the provinces North Brabant and Limburg in the Netherlands. My earliest silvers date 1750, so I will show both of them:
I may then conclude with two coppers, one from the Austrian Netherlands, the second one from the Principate of Liège.
Austrian Netherlands, liard(F) or oord(N), 1750:
Principate of Liège, liard 1750:
After this flurry of coins from the early 1750's, there now is a 'hole' in the time line of my collection.
For the 1740's, I can only show some coppers of the style you see above (1744 and 1745). Afterwards it gets even worse: instead of four years without any coin, it turns to over four decades, by which time we approach the turn of the century... if ever we get that far. I notice the 'fast' thread got stuck in 1704 since quite a while.
A VoC duit had the coat of arms of a Dutch province, however it was minted for circulation in the Dutch Indies on behalf of the VoC (Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie). It was not even legal tender in the Netherlands.
Most of these are not rare (but they never seem to want to come my way). A very decent grade you've got for your VoC duit, Roy. Congrats.
Thanks for your comments Gwyde and for the information. I am fortunate to have a fair number of Duits covering a range of Netherlands "Provinces" but they do vary considerably in condition.
1740 Swiss Cantons - Chur Bishopric (Joseph Benedict), Bluzger KM#157
1740 Swiss Cantons - Chur City (Ulrich VII), Bluzger KM#263
I didn't realize that I had the pair until I started digging through my collection for this post. The bishopric has the Ibex on the coat of arms on the obverse. The city issue has the Ibex within the town gate.
