As I collect more and more, I notice a lot of people go for specific goals like one from every country or all of a certain country or whole sets. Being different I think I came up with one. Collecting all coins monetized under bad/evil leaders. Such as all coins from Hitlers reign, or Idi Amin, or maybe just 1 per leader.
Any thoughts?
Any specific leaders you'd think should be included?
1. Hitler - Germany
2. Idi Amin - Uganda
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
Some dictators (in order of how many people they killed):
10. Yakubu Gowon (Nigeria)
9. Mengistu Haile Mariam (Ethiopia)
8. Kim Il-Sung (North Korea)
7. Pol Pot (Cambodia)
6. Ismail Enver Pasha (Turkey)
5. Hideki Tojo (Japan)
4. Leopold II of Belgium (Belgium)
3. Adolf Hitler (Germany)
2. Josef Stalin (Sovjet Union)
1. Mao Zedong (China)
And perhaps, because it's pretty recent, Moammar al-Qadhafi (Libya).
It's all relative though, Go over to North Korea and I'm sure Kim Jung Il is regarded as a national hero. Napoleon is a hero for the French but I'm not sure everyone in the world would view him as such. Truman may have been viewed favourably by Americans as the president that ended the war, but the people of Nagasaki and Hiroshima would view him as a monster for the effects that the atomic bombs had on them.
Romania 1967-1989 , Nicolae Ceausescu, not really evil but he didn't cared about the people. There were queues for food and anything, not because there wasn't food, no, just for fun.
Quote: bam777Although it is your choice...I'm not sure this is a good methodology for coin collecting.
It is unusual but a little strange an unusual quirk of collection.
haha, I know. But if we don't remember the bad guys, then we might as well forget about the people that died or were hurt in their wake. I am about history mostly. I make pictures of some of my coins, similar to the USA Bicentennial framed 1976 set. If I do this, I will do it by century and Have a coin, then next to it, the dates the Alleged evil person came into power, what their title was, Death toll under, year of birth and death, and year they fell out of power. Example:
Adolf Hitler Born: April 20 1889 Died: April 30 1945 Office: August 2 1934- Death Title: Fuhrer Country: Germany 17 Million people killed in correlation
This does not praise him in any way. I am no Nazi. I will do this for other people too, I probably will pick 10-25 of the most evil leaders of that century.
Idi Amin Born:1925 Died:August 16 2003 Office: January 25 1971-April 11 1979 Title: President Country: Uganda 100-500,000 People killed in correlation
Just gives me some small goal and purpose.
I will Post my final list of the 20th Century once I research all of the people available to look up. The qualifications are not Death Toll alone, But how and why the people died, and as well Societal impact due to said person.
I will probably take a thin sheet of cork board, and use a hole bit in my drill to cut out each size per coin, then print out on thick paper the info per person, and maybe a map of the world as entire background for picture. Then frame it in glass with wood frame
Killed over 200,000 soldiers of the CSA plus untold numbers of old men, children and women as he ordered the twin drunks and former mental patients Grant and Sherman to destroy the undefended Deep South. Sherman's famous March to the Sea was just one long orgy of looting, rape and lynchings, opposed by 13 year old boys and old men as the menfolk were away up North beating the Union Army into the dust.
Also a little over 300,000 Yankees (no women and children) but they were just easily replaced cannon fodder.
Indirectly Lincoln is responsible for the deaths of many millions as he illegally changed the USA from a loose coalition of independent states, AKA a Confederacy, into a huge superpower centrally ruled by an increasingly tyrannical regime in Washington DC. Such great power inevitably leads to abuse of weaker countries. Every war since 1861 can be "credited" to Honest Abe.
Thank you, John Wilkes Booth.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Quote: EddievBSome dictators (in order of how many people they killed):
10. Yakubu Gowon (Nigeria)
9. Mengistu Haile Mariam (Ethiopia)
8. Kim Il-Sung (North Korea)
7. Pol Pot (Cambodia)
6. Ismail Enver Pasha (Turkey)
5. Hideki Tojo (Japan)
4. Leopold II of Belgium (Belgium)
3. Adolf Hitler (Germany)
2. Josef Stalin (Sovjet Union)
1. Mao Zedong (China)
And perhaps, because it's pretty recent, Moammar al-Qadhafi (Libya).
NOT a bad list of evils, although I would DELETE Ismail Enver Pasha as I think he is not a proven mass killer, but add the Romanian Genius of the Carpathians, Nicolae Ceausescu,as He is a proven mass killer, if you collect those guys' coins.
plus I need clarification, how Leopold II of Belgium got on the list?
Quote: EddievBSome dictators (in order of how many people they killed):
10. Yakubu Gowon (Nigeria)
9. Mengistu Haile Mariam (Ethiopia)
8. Kim Il-Sung (North Korea)
7. Pol Pot (Cambodia)
6. Ismail Enver Pasha (Turkey)
5. Hideki Tojo (Japan)
4. Leopold II of Belgium (Belgium)
3. Adolf Hitler (Germany)
2. Josef Stalin (Sovjet Union)
1. Mao Zedong (China)
And perhaps, because it's pretty recent, Moammar al-Qadhafi (Libya).
NOT a bad list of evils, although I would DELETE Ismail Enver Pasha as I think he is not a proven mass killer, but add the Romanian Genius of the Carpathians, Nicolae Ceausescu,as He is a proven mass killer, if you collect those guys' coins.
plus I need clarification, how Leopold II of Belgium got on the list?
Pasha led the Ottoman Empire in both Balkan Wars and WWI and eventually he started the Armenian Genocide where 1.5 million people died (in total he's responsible for 2.5 million deaths).
Leopold decided to colonize Belgian Congo where he forced the indiginous population into slave labor. If he wouldn't have done this it would have saved 2-15 million lives. So his position in the list is debatable as it's not clear how many people died, but he surely was no sweetheart.
Quote: EddievBSome dictators (in order of how many people they killed):
10. Yakubu Gowon (Nigeria)
9. Mengistu Haile Mariam (Ethiopia)
8. Kim Il-Sung (North Korea)
7. Pol Pot (Cambodia)
6. Ismail Enver Pasha (Turkey)
5. Hideki Tojo (Japan)
4. Leopold II of Belgium (Belgium)
3. Adolf Hitler (Germany)
2. Josef Stalin (Sovjet Union)
1. Mao Zedong (China)
And perhaps, because it's pretty recent, Moammar al-Qadhafi (Libya).
NOT a bad list of evils, although I would DELETE Ismail Enver Pasha as I think he is not a proven mass killer, but add the Romanian Genius of the Carpathians, Nicolae Ceausescu,as He is a proven mass killer, if you collect those guys' coins.
plus I need clarification, how Leopold II of Belgium got on the list?
You should study more about Ceausescu, he did not killed people. Probably around 1000-2000 indirectly.
Quote: bam777Although it is your choice...I'm not sure this is a good methodology for coin collecting.
It is unusual but a little strange an unusual quirk of collection.
haha, I know. But if we don't remember the bad guys, then we might as well forget about the people that died or were hurt in their wake. I am about history mostly. I make pictures of some of my coins, similar to the USA Bicentennial framed 1976 set. If I do this, I will do it by century and Have a coin, then next to it, the dates the Alleged evil person came into power, what their title was, Death toll under, year of birth and death, and year they fell out of power. Example:
Adolf Hitler Born: April 20 1889 Died: April 30 1945 Office: August 2 1934- Death Title: Fuhrer Country: Germany 17 Million people killed in correlation
This does not praise him in any way. I am no Nazi. I will do this for other people too, I probably will pick 10-25 of the most evil leaders of that century.
Idi Amin Born:1925 Died:August 16 2003 Office: January 25 1971-April 11 1979 Title: President Country: Uganda 100-500,000 People killed in correlation
Just gives me some small goal and purpose.
I will Post my final list of the 20th Century once I research all of the people available to look up. The qualifications are not Death Toll alone, But how and why the people died, and as well Societal impact due to said person.
I will probably take a thin sheet of cork board, and use a hole bit in my drill to cut out each size per coin, then print out on thick paper the info per person, and maybe a map of the world as entire background for picture. Then frame it in glass with wood frame
At first I also thought it was a little unusual but this could be pretty nice.
You see, I told you so, it's all relative. Imreh arguing about Pasha and Kommodore arguing about Ceausescu. Your point of view differs depending on when, where and how you were raised. Some might argue that the formation of the British empire was evil because of the way the local inhabitants of the islands they overwhelmed were treated.
How can a fact be different from a country to another?
The simple search of Ceausescu killings or killer doesn't give anything relevant
It can't be simply put next to Stalin or Mao Zedong.
I hate communism by the way.
"You should study more about Ceausescu, he did not killed people"
Quote from wikipedia
"Ceaușescu’s regime collapsed after he ordered his security forces to fire on anti-government demonstrators in the city of Timișoara on 17 December 1989"
I'm not saying who's right and wrong. I'm just saying that we all interpret facts differently given our own personal viewpoint As I said, Kim Jung Il is seen by many as evil, but to the upper class in Korea who benefited from his rule he's probably seen as a hero. Some groups round the world still view Hitler as a visionary.
Take New Zealand's current leader, John Key. He's extremely popular over here, high approval ratings. But since his government has come into power there have been numerous times when business has been put ahead of the environment, approval given for open cast gold and coal mines on conservation land, the home of endangered species. Approval given for oil exploration in a marine reserve home to the world's most endangered dolphin the maui dolphin, so to people like me that are environmentally minded he's an evil man.
It's not just geography, perceptions change over time.
President Truman was deeply unpopular on leaving office, now he's generally well regarded even by us folks on the political right as being a decent man who was handed a crappy hand which he played as well as anyone else could have.
Woodrow Wilson however.......
History is written by those who didn't get a bullet in the back of the head. Almost every fact you learned at school about Nero and especially Caligula is either a misrepresentation or an outright lie written by the people who murdered them and stole the throne.
The Tudors did the same with our last Plantagenet King, Richard III who is portrayed as a cowardly hunchback who murdered his of nephews to gain power. The plain truth is that he died with sword in hand on the field of battle and the young Princes were almost certainly killed by the thuggish Tudors.
At the height of his power Napoleon was regarded by the rest of Europe as a monster. The fat, useless, degenerate Bourbon King used exactly that term to describe him. Today after two hundred years most people with even a rudimentary education regard him as being the best ruler Europe has seen since Charlemagne.
I wonder what people will be saying about Hitler and Stalin in 200 years?
Don't believe the court historians, current of ancient. History should be derived from original, untainted sources not from paid propagandists. Like it used to be before the drugged out old hipsters from the 60's took over education.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Agree completely Phil, it's not just geography but also your cultural and social views. Those of us raised in middle class families with a strong union background aren't likely to view any right wing politicians in a favourable light.
Your mention of Richard III reminds me of the opening scene from the first ever Blackadder episode. Where he appears as a hunchback heading into his nephew's room, but it turns out he's just carrying a big sack of toys to give to his them.
Quote: pnightingaleToday after two hundred years most people with even a rudimentary education regard him as being the best ruler Europe has seen since Charlemagne.
I like Napoleon (Alexander the Great, too), but I have to say...
LONG LIVE THE HABSBURGS AND THEIR DESCENDANTS.
Who are actually Charlemagne's line...
Charlemagne, one of the easiest guys to remember the coronation date for. Christmas day 800AD, one thing that's stuck in my head during the many years since I left University.
I am really liking the conversation about this. Great mentions, and lots of interesting facts.
@ Pnightningale
I think what you mean by no bullet in the head is what I call "Revisionists History"
History will always be written by the "Winners"
Think about this, for all we know a lot of the historical figures such as King Tutankhamen, Caligula, Torquemada, etc. could be all revisionist.
@ imreh who asked about Leopold II
This is what I got from wordpress.com
He was king of Belgium from 1865 to 1909. He ruled the Congo Free State, which was a private project, from 1885 to 1908. The Congo Free State was 76 times larger than Belgium. He is considered one of the greatest liars of all time because he fooled the whole world that he was helping the Congo and the world believed him. Instead he turned the Congo into a country ruled by force labor. He was free to rule the Congo Free State as a personal domain. Leopold ruled about 20 million Congolese. Under his administration, the Congo Free State was subject to a terror regime. The Congo Free State also became one of the most infamous international scandals of the turn of the century. His men tortured, maimed, and slaughtered millions of Congolese. Congolese were killed if they did not bring enough rubber. Hundreds of thousands of people had their hands, legs, feet, arms, heads, ears, and noses cut off. Many villages were burned and the Natives forced to flee into the jungle. Leopold’s men raped, flogged and eat the natives. They slaughtered hundreds of thousands of children. More than 500,000 died from various diseases. A few million died of starvation. Leopold killed around 10 million Congolese (or 50% of the Congo’s population). Before Leopold acquired The Congo Free State, most African countries were free countries, but within 30 years after Leopold acquired the Congo Free State, all but 2 African countries were taken by European countries. He did all of this just to get more money. Leopold died in 1909.
As I said before, the list is not based on Death Toll alone, but impact, and nature of the evil. Death Toll surely will have something to do with how I select them.
As a note:
I have decided. I will select 15 people from each century starting from 20th back. (Until it get's too expensive to do so)
So let's decide. Who should be #1 for most evil
I have a few I am in between.
Idi Amin
Pol Pot
Mao Zedong
Adolf Hitler
Joseph Stalin
Talat Pasha
Hirohoto
These are I am sure not the most evil people there were, but I think they all won a well deserved spot for in the top few. Tell me what you think, and who you think should be #1. If I don't have someone listed, please feel free to suggest a #1 person.
I want to make this framed coin set with Numistas help!!! (I'll buy all the coins and material, all you have to do is help me learn and decide who is "Terribad")
As well when the decision is made for each leader, I will pick out the best coins I have or the best I can get for that country and time period for voting on which one to use.
I have a question. I recently came into possession of banknotes from Wilkes Land I know nothing about them. Any help if you know about them would be great.
I have :
$1
$2
$5
$10
$20
$50
$100
They are marked 2014 Serie A with a map of Antarctica.
Quote: "Coinhoarder12"I have a question. I recently came into possession of banknotes from Wilkes Land I know nothing about them. Any help if you know about them would be great.
I have :
$1
$2
$5
$10
$20
$50
$100
They are marked 2014 Serie A with a map of Antarctica.
Let me guess. You searched the forums for Wilkes and this one came up so you figured it was a good idea to attach your question about Wilkes Land banknotes to this 7 year old post that just happened to contain John Wilkes Booth in it? Don't do that! Create a new post in the correct forum.
Wow so many evil people have run this world, you should do a collection of ones who are not evil.
My choice for the nasties, No order
1. Gaddafi (Libya 1969 - 2011)
2. Kim Il Sung, Jong il or Jong Un (1946 - now)
3. Any coin of China period,
4. Japanese coins in the time of Tojo (1937 - 1945)
5. USA coins 2016 - 2020 and 2000 - 2008 era of Dubya and Adolf Dumpf.
6. NZ 2009 - 2016 under the reign of Judah Keyberg, 1990 - 1999 and 1975 - 1984 Muldoon and Bulga.
7. Hitler (A Duh!)
8. Any Russia except 1992 - 2000 when Yeltsin was in
9. Mobutu in Zaire - up to 1997
10. Cuba between 1959 and now.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Quote: "Moneytane"Wow so many evil people have run this world, you should do a collection of ones who are not evil.
My choice for the nasties, No order
1. Gaddafi (Libya 1969 - 2011)
2. Kim Il Sung, Jong il or Jong Un (1946 - now)
3. Any coin of China period,
4. Japanese coins in the time of Tojo (1937 - 1945)
5. USA coins 2016 - 2020 and 2000 - 2008 era of Dubya and Adolf Dumpf.
6. NZ 2009 - 2016 under the reign of Judah Keyberg, 1990 - 1999 and 1975 - 1984 Muldoon and Bulga.
7. Hitler (A Duh!)
8. Any Russia except 1992 - 2000 when Yeltsin was in
9. Mobutu in Zaire - up to 1997
10. Cuba between 1959 and now.
What was wrong with Gaddafi??? Please, get informed before you drop something.
Quote: "pnightingale"Abraham Lincoln, tyrant and war criminal.
Killed over 200,000 soldiers of the CSA plus untold numbers of old men, children and women as he ordered the twin drunks and former mental patients Grant and Sherman to destroy the undefended Deep South. Sherman's famous March to the Sea was just one long orgy of looting, rape and lynchings, opposed by 13 year old boys and old men as the menfolk were away up North beating the Union Army into the dust.
Also a little over 300,000 Yankees (no women and children) but they were just easily replaced cannon fodder.
Indirectly Lincoln is responsible for the deaths of many millions as he illegally changed the USA from a loose coalition of independent states, AKA a Confederacy, into a huge superpower centrally ruled by an increasingly tyrannical regime in Washington DC. Such great power inevitably leads to abuse of weaker countries. Every war since 1861 can be "credited" to Honest Abe.
Thank you, John Wilkes Booth.
With this as background, most USA presidents who waged war just for oil and money....I mean "to liberate the people", would fit.
Well, isn't this a little too close to politics, which is a subject we all try to avoid here?
Evil leaders? All of us collect coins from evil leaders))
If we are talking on XX century, I propose to start from Euro coinage just for NATO using depleted uranium weapons in Europe in the year of Euro introduction.
Then to add some coins of Elizabeth II e.g. because of the Mau Mau Uprising and Kikuyu people massacre. But generally some earlier UK coinage may be added, e.g. for provoking millions deaths in India during Bengal famine or for Boer genocide (I'm generally not talking about all XIX century staff during the rule of Queen Victoria like opium victims in China or all the other colonial crimes).
Then it is possible to make a special place for USA coins for their Agent Orange in Vietnam and generally provoking quite a lot of conflicts and just killings (Indonesia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.).
There are some doubts with Ceausescu... In this case there shall be no doubts about collecting French coinage from Charles de Gaulle time after Sétif, Guelma or Oran massacres...
I believe we can proceed with quite a lot of countries with this logic.
My personal list of scammers from Numista: erniemix, yvain, CassTaylor
Quote: "pnightingale"Abraham Lincoln, tyrant and war criminal.
Killed over 200,000 soldiers of the CSA plus untold numbers of old men, children and women as he ordered the twin drunks and former mental patients Grant and Sherman to destroy the undefended Deep South. Sherman's famous March to the Sea was just one long orgy of looting, rape and lynchings, opposed by 13 year old boys and old men as the menfolk were away up North beating the Union Army into the dust.
Also a little over 300,000 Yankees (no women and children) but they were just easily replaced cannon fodder.
Indirectly Lincoln is responsible for the deaths of many millions as he illegally changed the USA from a loose coalition of independent states, AKA a Confederacy, into a huge superpower centrally ruled by an increasingly tyrannical regime in Washington DC. Such great power inevitably leads to abuse of weaker countries. Every war since 1861 can be "credited" to Honest Abe.
Thank you, John Wilkes Booth.
Except maybe the Spanish American war, that was was because of yellow journalism and the lies spread about the Spanish in Cuba.
Quote: "Grinya"Evil leaders? All of us collect coins from evil leaders))
If we are talking on XX century, I propose to start from Euro coinage just for NATO using depleted uranium weapons in Europe in the year of Euro introduction.
Then to add some coins of Elizabeth II e.g. because of the Mau Mau Uprising and Kikuyu people massacre. But generally some earlier UK coinage may be added, e.g. for provoking millions deaths in India during Bengal famine or for Boer genocide (I'm generally not talking about all XIX century staff during the rule of Queen Victoria like opium victims in China or all the other colonial crimes).
Then it is possible to make a special place for USA coins for their Agent Orange in Vietnam and generally provoking quite a lot of conflicts and just killings (Indonesia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc.).
There are some doubts with Ceausescu... In this case there shall be no doubts about collecting French coinage from Charles de Gaulle time after Sétif, Guelma or Oran massacres...
I believe we can proceed with quite a lot of countries with this logic.
oh really... you should add
- Coins from Hungary in 1956
- coins in czechslovakia in 1968
- Romanian coins from 1969-1989
- soviet coins from 1922-1991
- East German coins during the 1970's
- Yugoslavian coins from 1945 (war trials and reprisals)
- Croatian coins from ww2
- Polish ww2 coins issued by Germany
- Bulgarian coins of ww2 (occupation of Yugoslavia)
- Chinese coins from 1949-1976 and any 1989 coins (some can say even modern coins)
- soviet coins from 1940
- vichy france coins
- serbian coins of 1943
- Yugoslavian coins from 1945-2000
- uganda coins from 1969 to the late 1970's
- nigerian coins during the civil war era
- Ethiopian coins from after 1977
- all somalian coins after 1960
- iraq coins from 1979-1991
- Iranian coins from 1979- present
- armenian and azerbjani coins from post soviet era
- all north korean coins
- cambodian coins from 1979
- vietnam coins from post 1975
- cuban coins post 1959
- congo coins under Mobutu
- greek coins from 1967- 1974
- Libyan coins from after 1969-2011
- all Saudi coins
- all yemen coins
- Panama coins in 1989
- Tanzania coins
- modern Syrian coins
- seyechles coins from 1977-1992
- Indonesian coins
- Myanmar coins
- most central asian coins
Quote: "EddievB"Some dictators (in order of how many people they killed):
10. Yakubu Gowon (Nigeria)
9. Mengistu Haile Mariam (Ethiopia)
8. Kim Il-Sung (North Korea)
7. Pol Pot (Cambodia)
6. Ismail Enver Pasha (Turkey)
5. Hideki Tojo (Japan)
4. Leopold II of Belgium (Belgium)
3. Adolf Hitler (Germany)
2. Josef Stalin (Sovjet Union)
1. Mao Zedong (China)
And perhaps, because it's pretty recent, Moammar al-Qadhafi (Libya).
NOT a bad list of evils, although I would DELETE Ismail Enver Pasha as I think he is not a proven mass killer, but add the Romanian Genius of the Carpathians, Nicolae Ceausescu,as He is a proven mass killer, if you collect those guys' coins.
plus I need clarification, how Leopold II of Belgium got on the list?
You should study more about Ceausescu, he did not killed people. Probably around 1000-2000 indirectly.
Funny, I wonder what happened to him... I guess he was such a good person no one ever touched him and he lives happily with his wife. I wonder what happened to Romanias food during the 80's it surely did not leav the nation
Please keep in mind that the forum policy is relatively strict about politics. This post has been reported as controversial.
I know the rules of the "free discussion forum", I highly appreciate all I read above for the historical interest, but please keep in minds the limits.
Maybe, but its 2021 and we are Political animals, our planet is going the toilet due to greed, exploitation and the rapid demands of evil regimes who don't give a flying fig about the environment.
And then there is covid.
Everyday in the news is another story about some so called "Leader" who is being tolerated by the so called United Nations eager to keep the peace because the "Leader" may drop some bombs or release a flu that tries to kill the world.
Lets call these clowns out for what they are, we don't need fear - the free world needs to stand up against the Tyrants.
We are allowed to have feelings and express our mind. My country is a FREE DEMOCRACY and Democratic life is enshrined.
PS: Anyone who tries to shut down FREE SPEECH and a debate on what is wrong with this world - is not the solution, they are the PROBLEM
Free the world from Tyranny, Racism, Homophobia, Religious dogma and Enviromental Abuse.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I perfectly understand your arguments and share them; the definition of free expression (= democracy or progress or whatever) is freedom of speech: you may disagree but not force me to shut it.
Moreover, I learnt a lot (history, politics) in the previous posts; it is immensely interesting to see how people from other countries and culture understand/live modern history.
Nevertheless.....
It is not nice to tease friends...
Sometime, somewhere, it does not make sense neither to express an opinion which is not constructed, based on facts but just the expression of guts feeling....
I just would like to live friendly exchange of opinion in a calm and quiet way ;-)
(notwithstanding the site liability)
Historians often refer to the "Timurid catastrophe" so much destruction and massacres committed by Tamerlan were spectacular; estimates of the death toll from his military campaigns go up to 17 million people (about 5% of the world population at the time). During his conquests, he did not hesitate to massacre the entire population of towns which had resisted him.
There are so many different grades of evil and points of view. Much of the stuff to read here is written from an american position strongly manipulated by a long tradition of anti-communist cold war propaganda. While I agree that states like the GDR or Titos Yugoslavia had some big flaws the people there where for a big part quite happy with the stability and the pro-worker policies of their government.
I write this from the point of view of a Western European who is no communist but cant call every communist state evil because of communism.
Quote: "alfonz"There are so many different grades of evil and points of view. Much of the stuff to read here is written from an american position strongly manipulated by a long tradition of anti-communist cold war propaganda. While I agree that states like the GDR or Titos Yugoslavia had some big flaws the people there where for a big part quite happy with the stability and the pro-worker policies of their government.
I write this from the point of view of a Western European who is no communist but cant call every communist state evil because of communism.
I totally agree with this. I do not like this whole conversation, to be honest. But I think it is good
also to mention the biggest evil-doing-country: the USA. I only mention a few names: Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Syria, Lybia and
many more, who all suffer from this socalled 'democracy' brought to them by the self-declared police-force of the world.
Not even to mention the atomic-bombs they tried out on Japan!
I wouldn't call the USA the biggest evil but Americans have in my opinion often a very arrogant view about the "evil" deeds of other countries while having a fairy tale view on their own history.
were spectacular; estimates of the death toll from his military campaigns go up to 17 million people (about 5% of the world population at the time). During his conquests, he did not hesitate to massacre the entire population of towns which had resisted him. 