Need help with 3 coins [solved]

Hi
 Three coins that beats me. I would be very glad if someone could help me.

Niclas





Coin 1 - 24 mm 4,5 grams
Coin 2 - 12 mm 1,8 grams
Coin 3 - 19 mm 1,0 grams

Tip for the first ?

Thank's for the tip.

It might be.

Niclas

Quote: niclas-64Thank's for the tip.

It might be.

Niclas

After your tip I looked further- It might be a Napoli Tornese 1636 - 1649 KM#60 , But I dont really agree with the reverse of that coin. That is my best guess right now

Niclas

2nd one is a PMC from Ancient India. Similar to this, https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces53067.html

Here are couple of punch-marks that I could identify.

1. Bird over Chaitya
2. Three human figures standing (attributed to deities).

Why not to check Spain Philip IV in copper? At least it is written so and the other side has an image that resemble a coat of arms. To say more the size and mass are needed for me. But you may check it by yourself - it is a pleasure.

Quote: cyprusalexanderWhy not to check Spain Philip IV in copper? At least it is written so and the other side has an image that resemble a coat of arms. To say more the size and mass are needed for me. But you may check it by yourself - it is a pleasure.

Thanks

Coin 1 - 24 mm 4,5 grams
been looking at the web for Spanish but they all seems to have right profile, not left.

Quote: sujit_kumar2nd one is a PMC from Ancient India. Similar to this, https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces53067.html

Here are couple of punch-marks that I could identify.

1. Bird over Chaitya
2. Three human figures standing (attributed to deities).

seems possible - thanks a lot

First one could be a double denier from Burgundy (Bourgogne).

Get closer
Dei Gracia Rex Sicilia
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?notify=1&vpar=1505&pos=0&iop=30

Yes, close but the size and mass is less then of the coin. Anyway just check a catalog is left.

even this catalog doesn't show it
http://www.rhinocoins.com/ITALY/rnapsic/FILIP42.HTML
 

Quote: cyprusalexanderYes, close but the size and mass is less then of the coin. Anyway just check a catalog is left.

Thank's a lot for all your searching  - still a mystery though.

No ideas for coin number 3?

Niclas

Quote: Frenchlovereven this catalog doesn't show it
http://www.rhinocoins.com/ITALY/rnapsic/FILIP42.HTML

Thanks a lot for all your searching.

Niclas

  So it is agreed coin 1 is Philip IV of Spain (31 March 1621 - 17 September 1665)
Like it says above PHILIPP IIII DGRS with the initials being Dei Gracia Rex Sicilia
I saw an Italian page which says: PHILIPP IIII D G R S
 si traduce in: Filippo IV per grazia di Dio re di Sicilia e di Gerusalemme e al R

Then behind the portrait I see AC letters with something before the A
- and they are GAC which is 'Giovanni Andrea Cavo, maestro di zecca' (mint master).
Though somewhere else I saw: mintmaster Giacomo Antonio Contarini

Still looking for what coin could be 24mm size.

Quote: ZacUKSo it is agreed coin 1 is Philip IV of Spain (31 March 1621 - 17 September 1665)
Like it says above PHILIPP IIII DGRS with the initials being Dei Gracia Rex Sicilia
I saw an Italian page which says: PHILIPP IIII D G R S
 si traduce in: Filippo IV per grazia di Dio re di Sicilia e di Gerusalemme e al R

Then behind the portrait I see AC letters with something before the A
- and they are GAC which is 'Giovanni Andrea Cavo, maestro di zecca' (mint master).
Though somewhere else I saw: mintmaster Giacomo Antonio Contarini

Still looking for what coin could be 24mm size.

I agree, must be Philip IV  - after all your ideas.

Its really nice with all your help. Its a pleasure and joy to get to learn more about all different coins and the history within. I suppose that is also the reason that you are helping me - to learn more and find new coins.

I can tell you that I posted the Philipp IIII picture at the forum at coinpeople.com, about a month ago. So far no answer! Either people at that forum lack your skill or ........

Aren't there any ideas about coin 3?

Niclas

 On the reverse I see what I thought was scrollwork, but could be the horns of some Philip IV coins I have seen which depict a hanging sheep.
  And yes, I looked at the reverse again and I am convinced that is what it is; I will rotate the image 110 degrees to the left to show what I mean, with the ribbon at the top of the image and the horns on the left.


 Ignore most of the second image; it is from a Canada token on Numista. I use it for illustration purposes only - the ribbon and horns I referred to earlier.  

Quote: ZacUKOn the reverse I see what I thought was scrollwork, but could be the horns of some Philip IV coins I have seen which depict a hanging sheep.
  And yes, I looked at the reverse again and I am convinced that is what it is; I will rotate the image 110 degrees to the left to show what I mean, with the ribbon at the top of the image and the horns on the left.


 Ignore most of the second image; it is from a Canada token on Numista. I use it for illustration purposes only - the ribbon and horns I referred to earlier.  

Yes I can definitely see what you mean. That fits with the Napoli tornese 1636. Found one at eBay.co.uk
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/pcc124-10-Napoli-Filippo-IIII-Tornese-con-Tosone-1636-/321228946758?pt=Monete_Antiche&hash=item4acabcbd46

 That design is known as 'the hanging fleece' or 'the golden fleece' and it has some historical significance - see link below (I also remember now that I have a token with it on).
http://home.golden.net/~eloker/tokn5.htm

 There are three choices (for copper) on here it could be, using 1621 to 1665 dates ...
http://secure.numismaster.com/ta/Coins.admin?rnd=QCVBWUVQ&@impl=coins.ui.ucatalog.flat.coin.UiControl_FindResults&@windowId=RBDFN
 so either KM# 60 71 76 but not 77 as that is shown on reply below.

KM# 60  Tornese  1630-1638  Copper
 Obverse: Crowned bust to left, date at end of legend, where present
 Reverse: Golden Fleece suspended to left in laurel wreath, no legend
KM# 71  Tornese  1636-1637  Copper
 Obverse: Crowned and armoured bust to right, date below
 Reverse: Golden Fleece suspended to left in laurel wreath, no legend
KM# 76  Tornese  1642  Copper
 Obverse: Crowned and armoured bust to left, date below, where present
 Reverse: Golden Fleece suspended to left, divides date, in laurel wreath, no legend
Though cannot be KM# 60 as that is just a crowned bust (not armoured), and cannot be KM# 71 as that is facing right, so has to be KM# 76 with 1642 date - assuming those descriptions are correct.

EDIT: I do not have any pictures of mine with the hanging fleece, anyway what I have is a Conder token ...
 UK 28mm Hanging sheep // building [1791 Norwich Castle Half Penny]
 Edge lettering: RICHARD BACON COCKNEY LANE

one with the same size and weight, but not the same wording :
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?param=58622q00.jpg&vpar=1870&zpg=70817&fld=http://www.forumancientcoins.com/Coins2/

I found only one with :
- DGRS
- GAC
- face looking right
- il tosone

on 1637

in the Vol. XX - ITALIA MERIDIONALE CONTINENTALE (Napoli, Parte II - da Filippo II alla chiusura della zecca)



Nerver give up

   I think coin 1 is this from Italian eBay ...
http://www.ebay.it/itm/NAPOLI-FILIPPO-IV-TORNESE-1638-GA-C-avanti-38-/261161262876?pt=Monete_Antiche&hash=item3cce6c9f1c
 described as 24.2mm size with GAC letters and found with the
search for 'REGNO DI NAPOLI FILIPPO IV TORNESE'
http://www.ebay.it/sch/sis.html?_nkw=REGNO%20DI%20NAPOLI%20FILIPPO%20IV%20TORNESE&_itemId=180216430858

REGNO DI NAPOLI
FILIPPO IV (1621-1665)
Tornese (Ae)   1638   
flan: 24,2 mm. ca. / gr. 5,0 ca.
*busto del Sovrano a sx.,dietro: GA/C,avanti:(3)8   /   *il Tosone sospeso.
 Pannuti-Riccio 102

 Not sure what date yours is or where to look on the coin; sometimes divided by the fleece, like the earlier reply where 1647 date just used 47 and was shown as 4 on left and 7 on right.

 Here is another one and a picture of both sides ...
http://www.ebay.it/itm/pcc124-10-Napoli-Filippo-IIII-Tornese-con-Tosone-1636-/321228946758?pt=Monete_Antiche&hash=item4acabcbd46

Quote: niclas-64No ideas for coin number 3?

Looks like an early Swedish coin, with the three crowns on the reverse.
This one is only slightly like coin 3 and has similar letter style ...
http://coins.ha.com/itm/sweden/world-coins/sweden-karl-knutsson-1448-57-1464-65-1467-70-silver-ortug-nd-/a/3029-30956.s

Quote: ZacUK

Quote: niclas-64No ideas for coin number 3?

Looks like an early Swedish coin, with the three crowns on the reverse.
This one is only slightly like coin 3 and has similar letter style ...
http://coins.ha.com/itm/sweden/world-coins/sweden-karl-knutsson-1448-57-1464-65-1467-70-silver-ortug-nd-/a/3029-30956.s

Thanks, yes I agree. Didn't think so at first (would have been natural as I'm from Sweden) because I couldn't read the inscriptions. After your tip I looked further, haven't found the one yet but similar ones.

Niclas

It might be an Erik of pommern coin from Sweden (an ortug)
http://www.numismatik.se/galleri_org/galleri_erikpommern.php

 Agreed - the three crowns on one side and the E monogram on the other.
I guess you saw my two earlier replies where I found what coin 1 was.  

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic30827.html#p260164
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic30827.html#p260267

Quote: ZacUKAgreed - the three crowns on one side and the E monogram on the other.
I guess you saw my two earlier replies where I found what coin 1 was.  

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic30827.html#p260164
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic30827.html#p260267

Yes I go for that. Believe that now I've got three very good answers.
Being they're lumps of metal, have now developed to three very interesting historic items!

Thanks a lot

Niclas

Hi can tell you that I have found a more accurate coin for the swedish one.
It seems to be an ortug from the legendary king Gustav Vasa ( 1524 - 1527)

I'm very pleased.....

http://www.tonysmynt.se/gustavvasa.html

Niclas