Coin Shows - Rant warning

I've never made a secret of the fact that I find 90% of coin dealers to be loathsome, wretched people. I can put up with them singly or even in pairs for short periods, but the idea of spending a whole day in close proximity to dozens of the reptiles is about as appealing to me as a long weekend in Dearborn. Accordingly I've never been a big fan of coin shows and until I decided to try attending a few in a last couple of years, the last one I attended was at the Piccadilly Hotel, Manchester circa 1980. I was hoping that things might have improved during my self imposed exile.

I've reserved judgment until now because I'm not one for jumping to conclusions based on a couple of bad experiences. However now that I've managed to endure a dozen or so recently I can confidently state that Coin Shows suck.

The coins are fine (overpriced but fine), the venues are OK.... the problem is the rude, dishonest, arrogant and condescending dealers. A certain amount of deception and misrepresentation is sadly normal in most professions, from used car salesmen and attorneys to doctors but amongst coin dealers it's just so rampant and commonplace. I've watched these bottom feeding toads offer $100 for a complete set of Indian Head cents, heard them telling sellers that high grade silver coins were only worth 50% or their melt value and two minutes later convincing some sucker that a harshly cleaned Morgan Dollar is "worth $50 just for the silver".

Quite apart from the lack of ethics there is an even bigger problem - unprofessional conduct. What kind of professional wears a Metallica t-shirt 4 sizes too small from the bottom of which protrudes a nasty looking, hairy midriff? What kind of professionals loudly discuss how stupid their recent customers are with the guy on the next booth in front of other potential customers? At least used car salesmen try to dress the part while the average coin dealer, in my experience, is a creepy looking, overweight, middle aged male with badly cut greasy hair and severe halitosis. I wouldn't have one sweeping my driveway.

They complain about how little money they are making, ridicule buyers who either have a few questions or want to buy/sell a coin for a reasonable price, look and act like pigs yet seem unable to make the connection between their conduct and their poor earnings.

At every venue there are inevitably a couple of booths offering mainly cleaned, doctored or outright fake coins.  A respectable profession would regulate itself and run such scum out of town on a rail but they absolutely do not care. I guess it's only a small step from grossly misrepresenting a coin's value to outright peddling illegal crap. Thieves stick together. I've tried speaking to the organizers who promise to "look into it".

Quite simply I refuse to trade with these parasitical vermin who deserve to be put out of business. There are a handful of dealers, old and new, who I trust and respect and it's with those people I'll be spending my disposable income. Apart from those honorable exceptions I would like to see "professional" coin dealers become a thing of the past. It might make it harder to track down elusive coins but I'd much rather swap coins in an equitable trade with another collector than buy and sell from a dealer.

I had great hopes for sites such as Numista and ColNect developing into a real alternative to eBay and dealers. Sadly neither site is headed in the right direction but maybe someone, somewhere is developing a coin trading website which is free from hustlers and responsibly managed.

Wouldn't that be something!

I have only had limited contact with dealers...I only frequent my local coin store which I have the pleasure of saying is a really nice place. The owner is a pretty decent guy and I went to school with his son-in-law who happens to handle the world coins. So I guess I'm spoiled in that way. However, I have run into a few vendors at flea market type events with their grossly overpriced Morgan dollars. I agree with Phil that those guys by and large fit a certain undesirable description. It helps me value more highly some of the great contacts I've made here.

Quote: pnightingaleWhat kind of professionals loudly discuss how stupid their recent customers are with the guy on the next booth in front of other potential customers? At least used car salesmen try to dress the part while the average coin dealer, in my experience, is a creepy looking, overweight, middle aged male with badly cut greasy hair and severe halitosis. I wouldn't have one sweeping my driveway.

Somebody is upset they didn't get invited to the inner circle.

Quote: torontokubaSomebody is upset they didn't get invited to the inner circle.

Yeah, I was equally upset at not being inducted into the Hip Hop Hall of Fame.

I think it's the hand made shoes and cut glass accent.

I have found some nice world coins priced to move at these shows, especially at booths that really only deal in Canadian coins. And some dealers really do not care if there is world silver mixed in with their 20-cent coins! I love this myopic mindset - I bet it is even better in America (or... they don't carry world coins at all ).

Hand made, you say? I can see these going well with the exposed hairy mid-section and Metallica t-shirt.

I've never been to a coin show in Florida, but I haven't experienced many of Phil's complaints firsthand at northern Virginia's coin shows.  Every dealer is wearing at least a polo shirt and khakis (if not better), and voice levels are kept at a respectable and temperate volume.

I've had two troubles with dealers at local coin shows.  First, some dealers are just plain stubborn.  I ran across Dealer "A" selling circulated Indian Head cents for $1 each.  Dealer "B" at the very next table a whole four feet away, was selling the same coins in better condition for $0.35 each!  I pointed this out to Dealer "A", and his reply was "I don't care.  If his are cheaper, buy his instead".  It's a wonder such people stay in business.

The far more widespread problem is that dealers near me have very little interest in foreign coins.  If I'm not buying American coins or I'm not buying silver, I am treated with disdain.  "Oh, you're not a serious collector.  You're not worth my time."  I can't get the time of day from these people.  I've also encountered this at coins shops as well as at shows.  Most dealers keep their foreign offerings in trunks under their tables, not expecting any demand for such things.

It was a good rant! Here in the UK I have experienced The London Coin Fair twice and I have also had the pleasure of the weekly coin and stamp collectors fair at Embankment just off Charing Cross station. I have met a couple of Numista members there and completed swaps there!

The dealers there for the most part are not pushy. They are not always dressed amazingly but do take what they are doing seriously. One old boy with lamb chops and glasses sells his coins in trays most of the time he can't hear you and he sounds a little like Worzel Gummidge; the cheapest being £3 each for a Roman coin, £5 each for something else, and then £9 for some fair grade Russian kopeks and silver coins.

Eric is a laid back dealer he reminds me of a bear that has just come out of hibernation. He usually wears a body warmer over a blue jumper and is sweet natured. He'll knock £10 off in a flash! Did so when I bought a very high grade Swiss 10 rappen! He has got fantastic world coins but just a little pricey.

Michael is a real gent, terrible teeth but you pick up a couple of coins (at 20p each) and he'll give you a discount! Over the past few months I have been buying a £6 bag of coins. I have nearly completed my Italian date runs. I have also managed to get 2 Numista rare coins! 8 million minted as opposed to 65 million.
He hand picks nice coins out of the bag and sells those at £1-3 each. He only deals with world coins. Prices are always reasonable.

Another guy is a little bit more pushy; never rude to me but a little sharper (as in harsh) than the others. Good coins though. I bought many lower grade Swiss coins for a £10! Usually they are £3 each!

There is one dealer who is miserable. Gets very stroppy when people don't reset what they have flicked through. I saw him at his best recently where he even cracked a joke. Another dealer that was coming for some money said to him, "I was waiting for a good time and it looked like you were smiling!" to which he replied, "I think that was wind!"
I asked him about something and he replied calling me, "sir". So he is getting better.

Then there is a Polish man who is the kiloware of crap guy! He sells at 10p each. He sold me some nice capsules once and some folders really cheap! He always wears the same leather brown jacket and looks in need of a bath. He gives you his own chair to sift through the coins. "Please sit, you look, 10 p each!" I paid in commemoratives you would have thought I paid him in gold!

Overall, compared to the London Coin Fair: I prefer it. Very laid back.

The good thing about the coin fair is the rummage trays. Cheap coins: great grades. A few dealers remember me and are polite but there are some that just want to deal with the "serious" collectors!

I agree with a lot of what Phil and others have said, and even laughed at how sadly accurate his description of coin dealers was (the halitosis part really got me). However, I go to about 4-5 coins shows a year and at least in Canada I find the situation a little better. Yes, there is inevitably some of the 'scum' you've mentioned, but what I consider to be the greatest part about coin shows is that they are full of different dealers. After some five years of going to these shows I pretty well know which dealers are honest, friendly, professional and helpful, and unless I'm looking for something very specific (like the 1945 dollar I'm sill trying to get    ) I almost exclusively buy from them.

In fact, even many of the old, smelly and completely zany dealers have been really friendly in terms of teaching/lecturing me about coins and related tips.

Again, maybe my situation here up north is better, but at the seemingly professional shows that I go to (the ones where you have to pay for admission) the dealers offer more competitive prices and avoid major scamming because the other dealers around them would notice straightaway. Either that or I've been lucky, or I've been ripped off all my life without knowing so.

It's very possible that the problems elsewhere are magnified in Florida. Common courtesy stops as soon as the state line is crossed.

I sent a letter to Governor Scott suggesting that the "Welcome to Florida" signs be taken down and replaced by "You are entering the State of Florida where the boobies are fake but the a***holes are very real".

Haven't had a reply yet.

Quote: bam777It was a good rant! Here in the UK I have experienced The London Coin Fair twice and I have also had the pleasure of the weekly coin and stamp collectors fair at Embankment just off Charing Cross station. I have met a couple of Numista members there and completed swaps there!

I have been there a few times. My search for old World coins and exonumia was looked upon with very little interest... being an obvious foreigner, I was called being " a chap looking for scruffy coins"... still I agree with bam777's description. From there I bought a lot of nice stuff for very reasonable prices.

I have never been to a coin show though. Although I was in Wien at the time, I missed this http://numismata.de/english/Wien/Promo/promo.htm

Why not go to have some fun?  Set yourself up outside some of the booths and spend the entire show telling all the stall owner's potential customers what their coins are really worth and what the seller's coins are really worth and see how much they sell during the show.  Hell, you could even start stalking them, go to all the coin shows they go to and do the same thing.

I've also been to the Charing Cross / Embankment weekly show and really liked going - I saw more historic British coins there than I did in the British Museum.  I felt that there was much less emphasis on slabbed coins and high end material unlike what I find back in Georgia.  I hope to return some day when I visit the UK again.

Quote: bam777It was a good rant! Here in the UK I have experienced The London Coin Fair twice and I have also had the pleasure of the weekly coin and stamp collectors fair at Embankment just off Charing Cross station. I have met a couple of Numista members there and completed swaps there!

The dealers there for the most part are not pushy. They are not always dressed amazingly but do take what they are doing seriously. One old boy with lamb chops and glasses sells his coins in trays most of the time he can't hear you and he sounds a little like Worzel Gummidge; the cheapest being £3 each for a Roman coin, £5 each for something else, and then £9 for some fair grade Russian kopeks and silver coins.

Eric is a laid back dealer he reminds me of a bear that has just come out of hibernation. He usually wears a body warmer over a blue jumper and is sweet natured. He'll knock £10 off in a flash! Did so when I bought a very high grade Swiss 10 rappen! He has got fantastic world coins but just a little pricey.

Michael is a real gent, terrible teeth but you pick up a couple of coins (at 20p each) and he'll give you a discount! Over the past few months I have been buying a £6 bag of coins. I have nearly completed my Italian date runs. I have also managed to get 2 Numista rare coins! 8 million minted as opposed to 65 million.
He hand picks nice coins out of the bag and sells those at £1-3 each. He only deals with world coins. Prices are always reasonable.

Another guy is a little bit more pushy; never rude to me but a little sharper (as in harsh) than the others. Good coins though. I bought many lower grade Swiss coins for a £10! Usually they are £3 each!

There is one dealer who is miserable. Gets very stroppy when people don't reset what they have flicked through. I saw him at his best recently where he even cracked a joke. Another dealer that was coming for some money said to him, "I was waiting for a good time and it looked like you were smiling!" to which he replied, "I think that was wind!"
I asked him about something and he replied calling me, "sir". So he is getting better.

Then there is a Polish man who is the kiloware of crap guy! He sells at 10p each. He sold me some nice capsules once and some folders really cheap! He always wears the same leather brown jacket and looks in need of a bath. He gives you his own chair to sift through the coins. "Please sit, you look, 10 p each!" I paid in commemoratives you would have thought I paid him in gold!

Overall, compared to the London Coin Fair: I prefer it. Very laid back.

The good thing about the coin fair is the rummage trays. Cheap coins: great grades. A few dealers remember me and are polite but there are some that just want to deal with the "serious" collectors!

Quote: "pnightingale"​It's very possible that the problems elsewhere are magnified in Florida...

​​I ran across this website & this very thread while wondering whether to attend the Philly ANA show and then Googling "Why are coin dealers so nasty?" I can state that it isn't just Florida...

And nasty they are. My numismatic experiences with these rabid feral swamp dwellers extends for about 45 years. I've experienced 1st hand many of the incivilities that pnightingale described. Maybe due to this or other factors, about 30 years ago I moved from US coins to World coins of certain countries. However virtually all of the rudeness was from US dealers whom I've found to be beyond loathsome.

Today I almost only buy coins from major auction firms although I've bought from a very few foreign dealers. I'm a legacy client with Heritage and all of the major auction firms in the US know me. I've never spent much more than $35,000. for a single coin but I semi-commonly buy coins in the 4 to 5 digit range and have been doing so for decades.

I've read that you don't begin to end the "higher end US coins" until you reach $50K/ coin and I just assumed that since I've never quite spent that much, this is why they're so disagreeable. However the ANA for their 2018 summer seminar proposed a topic about how "Coin dealers can revive the businesses" so I figured that this issue may be more widespread than just me.

I'll provide just one example. Years ago I used to buy coins from a dealer in Houston. One day I came in shortly after buying $7,000 in coins and the secretary told me that the dealers called me "Mr. Ahhh" from a figure of speech I used & would laugh about me together. I bought from these people quite regularly and would always stress that I was looking for a mint state (ms-62 min range) common date Draped Bust half dollar. For those unaquainted with US, this would be a 1806 or 1807. One day I came in and they told me that they had just gotten one in, a nice slabbed 62 but they sold it to someone else. This was in the days before the Internet where one simply waits for an auction for such pieces. Maybe they were seeking a challenge but they then convinced me to buy the world's ugliest ms-63 1828 Capped Bust half at virtually the same price they sold the 1806 for. I eventually got rid of it, at a loss of course, along with the rest of my higher end US collection (not to them tho).

I realise now that these would treat with contempt all the smaller buyers & collectors such as myself. They used to brag of some of their clients coming in and buying 300 double eagles at a single shot. Once they ran a newspaper ad bragging about how they sold a 1787 Brasher [gold] doubloon for, I think around $800K which was some sort of record at the time. I had a flock of double eagles, bought cheaply before the price of gold went up. This dealer said he could take them on consignment to a major show and sell them for me. He gave me a receipt for the pieces. When he returned, he told me that he had been "held up and robbed of all his coins". Thus he gave me the lower gold value I bought the pieces for years ago. I have no idea whether he was robbed or not and was too naive to ask to see a police report. Note all this was from one dealer and I've dealt with hordes of them over the years.

It serves them right if the business is declining; couldn't happen to a more deserving class of bacteria. I have to be careful at conventions as I'm pseudo-respected and am trying to publish and give presentations and such. Also a member of 3 national numismatic organizations. However, this thread is the perfect place to vent about what I've experienced.

I've only been to one, in the UK. As a youngish collector I found myself to be patronized a fair bit.

It isn't just coins , either. A similar rant could be written about used book dealers.

Quote: "pnightingale"​I sent a letter to Governor Scott suggesting that the "Welcome to Florida" signs be taken down and replaced by "You are entering the State of Florida where the boobies are fake but the a***holes are very real".
​

​AINT THAT THE TRUTH!!!

Matt

Quote: "Myeackle"​

Quote: "pnightingale"​I sent a letter to Governor Scott suggesting that the "Welcome to Florida" signs be taken down and replaced by "You are entering the State of Florida where the boobies are fake but the a***holes are very real".
​​
​
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​​AINT THAT THE TRUTH!!!
​
​Matt

That bastard child o' The South.​

Quote: "Gallienus"​

Quote: "pnightingale"​It's very possible that the problems elsewhere are magnified in Florida...

​​​I ran across this website & this very thread while wondering whether to attend the Philly ANA show and then Googling "Why are coin dealers so nasty?" I can state that it isn't just Florida...
​

Thank you for sharing your most eye opening experiences my dear ​Gallienus. I really can't understand what motivates these people. Presumably it's money, but respect and courtesy have no cost associated with them. It seems a strange business model to ignore or insult the people who have just put money in your pocket.

Since writing this in 2013, circumstances have forced me to step over the line and into the dark side. I still consider myself to be primarily a collector, much happier to trade for the right coins instead of cash, but I've sold maybe 50% of my former collection and am still downsizing. In just the past month I've sold multiple lots of coins ranging from a $1,000+ transaction to a young man wanting to buy $5 worth of coins. (he got the $5 plus another large lot of free coins) I take some pride in the fact that I treat both buyers with exactly the same courtesy.

I consider it to be enlightened self interest. The 15 year old buying a few coins with his allowance today will be a 25 year old with a lot of disposable income in 10 years time. Young collectors remember who it was who treated them well and spent time developing them. It costs me nothing but a little time and a handful of inexpensive coins but there are several among the top tier collectors who I first encountered as awkward young folks who just needed some sound advice and gentle encouragement in order to bloom. Now when I find myself needing a particular coin, these are the guys who can get it for me.

It's hardly rocket surgery but such a simple concept as seeding the future seems lost on 90% of full time dealers.

Quote: "pnightingale"=1emYoung collectors remember who it was who treated them well and spent time developing them. It costs me nothing but a little time and a handful of inexpensive coins but there are several among the top tier collectors who I first encountered as awkward young folks who just needed some sound advice and gentle encouragement in order to bloom. Now when I find myself needing a particular coin, these are the guys who can get it for me.
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​Amen! I have been fortunate enough to be on the receiving end of Phil's tutelage and have grown light years as a collector as a result. I hope it turns out to be mutually beneficial as I continue to grow!

You can count yourself lucky you still have coin shows. The last coin/stamp dealer in town, whose shop was my regular haunt, has decided to go into semi-retirement and only open his shop once a week. So it probably won't be long before he's decided to move to full retirement. Everyone else seems to have moved solely into internet sales. Personally I would much rather be complaining that the coin dealers are a bit rude than be complaining that there are no coin dealers at all.

Quote: "atdavid"​

Quote: "pnightingale"=1emYoung collectors remember who it was who treated them well and spent time developing them. It costs me nothing but a little time and a handful of inexpensive coins but there are several among the top tier collectors who I first encountered as awkward young folks who just needed some sound advice and gentle encouragement in order to bloom. Now when I find myself needing a particular coin, these are the guys who can get it for me.
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​​Amen! I have been fortunate enough to be on the receiving end of Phil's tutelage and have grown light years as a collector as a result. I hope it turns out to be mutually beneficial as I continue to grow!

It's already mutually beneficial! I have come to consider you a friend rather than a protégé.

Neil my dear fellow you should take over the coin shop and quit your day job!

I guess I'm fortunate to have around a dozen coin shops within a mile of my front door including some very decent ones. The closest is quite literally a 2 minute walk and even better, it's on the way to both my Doctor's office and our favorite breakfast house. It's actually a perfect illustration of the problem. The old gaffer who founded the business is just a gentleman, polite and always well dressed. His sons are loud, rude and extremely unprofessional. The grandsons are, with one honorable exception, pleasant enough but pretty clueless and just there for the paycheck. The old feller is well into his 80s and only works part time so I only visit now when I know he's going to be there.

I would love to take over his shop, but I'm a real chicken when it comes to risking a steady decent paying job for the risk of running a business. Especially since my wife and I have just taken out a sizable loan to do renovations to our house.

The OP is right, there are a lot of fraudsters out there. Luckily for us, the rude dealers who have a brick and mortar shop get the snot knocked out of them via Google reviews. You have to be really careful at coin shows. As a matter of fact, I don't care who is selling the coin. If it isn't certified by PCGS, NGC, or at least ANACS I'm not buying it. Coin doctors are just getting too good. One guy I know, unfortunately, is a coin doctor and has a feedback rating on Ebay of over 65,000 with a 99.99% feedback rating. ALL of his coins are doctored and he takes amazing photographs. But he sells so much that 6 or 7 people who actually catch him aren't enough to do anything to his feedback score. And these are the guys who are at coin shows. Can you tell a Gem uncirculated coin apart from one that has been dipped for 2 seconds because I sure as hell can't. And some PCGS graders don't catch them all either. My advice is stick to buying certified coins only. And for the love of God never buy a raw coin advertised as uncirculated on Ebay. Just my 2c.

Well........ so you don't like coin shows. Then just don't go. I'm a bit tired of some people having this "I know more about coins than you do" contest. If the coin stalls are so bad then set up your own and show them how it's done. I'm sure you will make a killing.

Quote: "Kipsley"​ Then just don't go.

I'll see your "If you don't like coin shows don't go" and raise you one "If you don't like the topic don't read it."

I​ don't, at least not since 2013. Which was the whole point of the post.

I'm not sure what you are referring to with your "I know more about coins" comment. Yes, actually I do, having been a collector for over 50 years, however I don't recall mentioning the fact at any point in this topic. The complaint is about rude sellers with bad attitudes, not any particular lack of knowledge. They are not making lowball offers because they don't know the correct value, these cynical bastards know exactly what they're doing. It seems to me to be a perfectly legitimate topic for a coin forum, no?

[deleted // personal comments].

May I wish you good luck.

Ha ha ha

Ohhhhh burn!

I've generally been quite pleased with coin shows so far, though of course there can be odd and somewhat unpleasant moments. Such as a year ago when I bought two coins from a part-time seller. They were just two George V Canadian 10¢ of high grade but low value, but he took them and started to check the trending value in Canadian Coin News. What? I couldn't believe it ─ he was checking whether he should sell them at a higher price than on the holders. It looked like he was happy with the current price. On principle I wouldn't have paid a penny more. What he was doing is actually illegal in Canada.

We also know sellers who systematically overgrade their coins, and you soon realize you're wasting your time flipping through their binders. I remember one time stopping at every table, and then totally ignoring such a seller whom I knew from previous shows, and I could see from the corner of my eye she looked at me just passing by without even looking at her stuff, going straight to the next table. Good feeling.

Quote: "Moonlambo"​The OP is right, there are a lot of fraudsters out there. Luckily for us, the rude dealers who have a brick and mortar shop get the snot knocked out of them via Google reviews.

​I don't really think leaving them a bad Google Review is going to do much good; I mean how many people look at Google Reviews before they visit a new dealer here? In my experience, word of mouth is usually the best way of warning other people about bad dealers; this is a business where reputation is more important than usual.

Welcome to the forum!

Quote: "CassTaylor"​

Quote: "Moonlambo"​The OP is right, there are a lot of fraudsters out there. Luckily for us, the rude dealers who have a brick and mortar shop get the snot knocked out of them via Google reviews.

​​I don't really think leaving them a bad Google Review is going to do much good; I mean how many people look at Google Reviews before they visit a new dealer here? In my experience, word of mouth is usually the best way of warning other people about bad dealers; this is a business where reputation is more important than usual.
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​Welcome to the forum!

​Whenever I'm going to a new city for a visit I look up the coin dealers online, their reviews pop up as part of the search. Luckily the few remaining dealers in NZ are all pretty good though. They kind of have to be considering a huge proportion of sales are done through Trademe (ebay). The dealers need to look after the customers that come into their stores.

Some dealers seem genuinely helpful. I went to a coin show last fall and was clearly the youngest adult there. I had a conversation with one dealer and Bitcoin came up in conversation, it was clearly something he didn't understand because he said he'd rather has a silver dollar than one Bitcoin worth about $10,000. Crazy.

My local coin shop has two guys working it, one being an asshole who won't even give you the time of day unless your spending a few hundred but the other older gentleman was actually pretty cool and took time to explain history and restoring the Civil War banknote he sold me.

Quote: "gridironshowcase"​
​My local coin shop has two guys working it, one being an asshole who won't even give you the time of day unless your spending a few hundred but the other older gentleman was actually pretty cool and took time to explain history and restoring the Civil War banknote he sold me.

​Most dealers seem to usually fall into either one of those two categories for me. Fortunately I seem to encounter far more friendly and extroverted people than any mean old misers with a bone to pick with the world.

I once knew a miserable old dealer in the UK who would insist on seeing how much money I had before letting me in, and would make me turn my pockets inside out before I left to make sure I wasn't taking anything, because of my age (I was around 12-13 at the time). He didn't have much in the way of inventory, manners or discounts either, so once I'd bought everything I wanted from him, I never went back.

Quote: "CassTaylor"​​​Most dealers seem to usually fall into either one of those two categories for me. Fortunately I seem to encounter far more friendly and extroverted people than any mean old misers with a bone to pick with the world.
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​I once knew a miserable old dealer in the UK who would insist on seeing how much money I had before letting me in, and would make me turn my pockets inside out before I left to make sure I wasn't taking anything, because of my age (I was around 12-13 at the time). He didn't have much in the way of inventory, manners or discounts either, so once I'd bought everything I wanted from him, I never went back.

​Oh man, that's pretty bad. I just checked out a shop that I have never been to before today with insane prices. I feel younger collectors get discriminated against. You'd think they'd be happy that younger folk are interested in the hobby instead of it completely dying off with the boomers.

Edit: No offense to them, that's just the age of most collectors I've met. There have been some really nice dealers I have met in that same age range.

Quote: "gridironshowcase"=1emI feel younger collectors get discriminated against.

​Yeah, definitely.

To be fair it's partly a business thing; I mean the businessperson in a suit with a briefcase full of cash bundles looking at your slabbed coins is more likely to give you better business than some teenager sorting through your junk coin bin. And making money is the whole point of operating a business.

But that's why I have respect for dealers who treat me with the same attitude as they do the imaginary businessperson I mentioned earlier; it shows they're genuinely impassioned in their field and not just here to make money (or at least have the decency to make an effort to hide the latter a bit). I always enjoy discussing numismatics with dealers face to face, even if I only end up buying a few euros worth of stuff from them. An interesting conversation with fellow numismatist/collector is worth everything in the vaults of Stack's Bowers.

If you ever come to Calgary go to Calgary Coin and Antique. Meet Robert K. the most knowledgeable, friendly and honest dealer you will ever meet in Canada. The Calgary coin show runs twice a year and all the dealers I have talked to there have been friendly, and free with advice. They will spend the time to educate you. I love going to the show and always buy an ms 1943,44 or 45 nickel, my favourite coins.
One year they set up a manual press and they would hammer (literally) a coin for you.

Quote: "Camerinvs"​I've generally been quite pleased with coin shows so far, though of course there can be odd and somewhat unpleasant moments. Such as a year ago when I bought two coins from a part-time seller. They were just two George V Canadian 10¢ of high grade but low value, but he took them and started to check the trending value in Canadian Coin News. What? I couldn't believe it ─ he was checking whether he should sell them at a higher price than on the holders. It looked like he was happy with the current price. On principle I wouldn't have paid a penny more. What he was doing is actually illegal in Canada.

​It would be fair for him to look up the values, if you were asking him to discount from his marked prices. It would not be fair for him to increase the prices, unless he warned you beforehand that the box/book had not been priced in some time, and the prices were subject to change.

I have been to a dealer in the northern suburbs of Chicago who would not put prices on his coins, but would look up each of your selections on eBay, then price his coins at that price as wholesale--even though an eBay Seller generally only receives about 80% of the selling price, net of eBay Final Value and listing fees, and the PayPal fees! Needless to say, most of my selections stayed with him!

Quote: "halfdisme"​It would be fair for him to look up the values, if you were asking him to discount from his marked prices. It would not be fair for him to increase the prices, unless he warned you beforehand that the box/book had not been priced in some time, and the prices were subject to change.
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​I have been to a dealer in the northern suburbs of Chicago who would not put prices on his coins, but would look up each of your selections on eBay, then price his coins at that price as wholesale--even though an eBay Seller generally only receives about 80% of the selling price, net of eBay Final Value and listing fees, and the PayPal fees! Needless to say, most of my selections stayed with him!

​In my case it was clear he was looking at increasing the price since he said he had labelled some of his 2X2s long time ago. And I was not asking for any discount.

On eBay, as you know, you can see a whole range of values for any coin. I sometimes use it for rough estimates of coins I know little about, for example before bidding on a coin that nobody seems to have noticed.

Sounds like most stamp shops and stamp dealers - dusty and overpriced stock, physically dirty and ugly people in the shop. Uneaten or partially eaten Cheesarine pasta type meals (Those cheap and ghetto things in the packet that stink to high heaven).

Generally I would avoid anyone wearing a Metallica T shirt selling coins, no doubt they have motorcycle memorabilia and some winged helmet and then you know neo nazi stuff. Being a person of colour I tend to avoid the racist military nuts (Always pro nazi) types.

They sound like the people of Pawn stars, loud, fat, obnoxious and covered in stupid tatts, or just slimy and horrible like Les Gold.

Call me narrow minded, but I would never buy anything let alone stamps and coins off anyone with excessive anti social tattoos (Words, skulls, mermaids etc) or any type of piercing, black metal or motorbike style tshirt and bad breath.

That show the OP mentioned sounded like hell.

I agree with that rant - and more. The town I live in used to have a couple greats shops and annual shows. But now the best shops are closed and the shows don't come around anymore (venues and city parking are too expensive).

Now I'm left with a couple low-life "gold and silver" shops that do exactly what the OP said: bad mouth customers and lie through their rotten teeth. Most of their sellers are out-of-towners who don't know what they have (I've eavesdropped on the convos) and the buyers get the snowjobs. I still windowshop but haven't bought anything in some time. Don't even get me started on ebay. I know there are some fine sellers out there but I can't wade through the swamp to find them.

Most of my stuff comes from other members on forums like Numista. Trading is the best way to get new material for me.

In my particular area the presence of a true coin shop is a fantasy. There are more pawn shops, gold and silver sellers, salvage shops, bargain shops, ad infinitum (and ad nauseam). eBay -- Hmmm??
I have to plan 4 trips each year of 2 or 3 days to shop for my collection. So, I've resigned my fate to trusting other forum members for honest negotiations. There a few dealers I do business with via phone or their website but they are ones I know and trust! One local bright spot is the auction at our monthly coin club meeting.

Here in Hong Kong, the biannual Hong Kong Coin Show (HKCS) is a charm. I've been there twice and I find the dealers there pretty nice and they are friendly. Coins might be slightly overpriced but any coin dealers found guilty of selling forgeries are banned immediately and from all future HKCS shows. It's worth the time to go to and it's reputable. The booklets they give you have helpful information and they have two or three informative articles on numismatics.

I've never had a problem with rude coin dealers at HKCS. Other places, I've had one or two, but I've always walked away from HKCS wanting to come back next time.

After visiting several coins shows all over the world and frequent contact with diggers, collectors and sellers. I must to admit that I did discover a brand new human branch: "the homo sapiens numismaticus".

I seems me interesting to conduct a research to his/her social behaviour.

PS. I definately agree with pnightingale (ignorance and arrogance all over).

Well, in singapore, so far i met some who refuse to lower their price. If they refuse to lower their price is ok with me. I just move on. I don really care about sellers rant about the guy is a cheapo or he is not a serious collector and so on. Because they never knew what the person behind is going through. There was even once i try to ask amd reason with a offical website about a pirticular banknote. He say that the website is a fraud. I just move on because how can a .gov website be a fraud website?at the same time i met some very good dealers that are always give me good discounts because i share good knowlegde with them and sometime we chat how are things in life. Through this process i learnt new things and so on.

in my point of view been a customer service line, i seen alot of jerks and good people. So yea. Everywhere you go is the same. Just have to tune your mind not to aurge with them and let them lose out in life what is the best/correct.what they wear does not matters. What matters is honesty, fair price and service.

Quote: "Saber82"​Well, in singapore, so far i met some who refuse to lower their price. If they refuse to lower their price is ok with me.

​Maybe I am misreading this, but it sounds like a dealer must lower their price for you, or you go away--even if the price is low or a bargain.

Hopefully this is not what you meant. If you know the price is fair or low, why push for a lower price? Sometimes dealers price coins AT THEIR COST. There many not be any room to discount.

I have had eBayers chew me out for daring to price a silver coin at more than melt!!! As I replied to him, I would net only about 80% of melt after fees. At that level, I would get more by taking the silver coins to the local smelter, and not spend the time and effort to list them on eBay--and he would never see them!

Regards,
Eugene

Quote: "halfdisme"​

Quote: "Saber82"​Well, in singapore, so far i met some who refuse to lower their price. If they refuse to lower their price is ok with me.

​​Maybe I am misreading this, but it sounds like a dealer must lower their price for you, or you go away--even if the price is low or a bargain.
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​Hopefully this is not what you meant. If you know the price is fair or low, why push for a lower price? Sometimes dealers price coins AT THEIR COST. There many not be any room to discount.
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​I have had eBayers chew me out for daring to price a silver coin at more than melt!!! As I replied to him, I would net only about 80% of melt after fees. At that level, I would get more by taking the silver coins to the local smelter, and not spend the time and effort to list them on eBay--and he would never see them!
​
​Regards,
​Eugene

​Well, I do not low ball. Low ball is not my practice. Example a coin in market price cost 10 dollars ard there. The dealer decided to sell 15 dollars. I will access the coin 1st and ensure its really worth 10 dollars. So I say I am intrested, but the price is too steep. And if he refuse to lower to 10, I will say its okie and I leave. If they want to bad mouth me, so be it. I Don really care.

I have seen it myself the shop refuse to lower the price and the goods stay there for 3 years. The best part is 3 years later, they remember me and ask me, if I am still intrested. I say no, I have 1 already. They goes arg.

I am not in the line of business. The 1st rule of business is when you have goods, make sure you make them go out quick and earn Alittle margin or alot. Unless you think there is potential in the goods otherwise. Lol....

Quote: "neilithicman"​I would love to take over his shop, but I'm a real chicken when it comes to risking a steady decent paying job for the risk of running a business. Especially since my wife and I have just taken out a sizable loan to do renovations to our house.

​Are you talking about Mr exclusive Howard Mitchell or the Eccles shop. Either way - the joys of living in New Zealand!

I probably need to take that remark back, had many happy dealings with Mr Mitchell lately. None of our dealers in NZ are bad, so few of them and a small market, they all look after us and we practically all are friend here.

 

Its great to have dealers who know what you collect and go out of their way to find things that interest you.

 

But yeah, if someone is selling cleaned or fake coins, avoid them and try and stop your friends. I am sure if intelligent collectors don't go near some stalls, neither will the newbies and vulnerable collectors. We should point those dealers out to newbies as they can get a good impression of the hobby. We always need more numismatists - and dodgy dealers and sleazy “shows” are not the way to get them.