On a couple of occasions, I have read comments by members of the Numista Community, stating that they are not allowed to swap, exchange or trade here.
The Numista Community should know what it needs to improve and what to focus on, in order to remedy this. It might be a good start, to reflect on such an attitude and learn from it. Whether it is advice from parents, wife/partner or friends, what are the reasons behind the closed approach?
I encourage anyone that finds themselves in this predicament, to speak up and share your outlook. Some of you already hinted at it, so, I know I'm not making it up.
I, and I'm sure a few others, would love to know some of the main concerns, fears or problems that lead to this fairly negative strategy, especially considering you belong to a site that is mainly for swapping.
I think it's a big leap of faith to take. You have to trust your personal details with someone you don't know and I think this puts people off. I also think we need to encourage parents to join their children on the forum so that they can see the site for themselves, and then decide whether or not they wish their child to swap on Numista.
I think walder coins is right. If the parent does not know much about this whole world in a box. And only hear the bad things about kids on the web. I can see where parents would be put off. I would not like to be a kid in this day. Too much for everything at once. And no time to be just a kid.
when I started over two years ago as a 14 year old, the issues were trusting people to actually send coins and if sent, have them be fair deals.
Pretty much that is still my main concern, with the trust issue more focused on the idea of 'fair' and also the often ridiculous postage costs associated with some swaps.
I don't know why you keep insisting this is primarily a swapping website. Just because you use it as such does not mean others do.
I didn't have my first swap on here until I'd been on the site for over a year. I use it primarily as a research site for looking up coins and then secondly as a chatting site for discussing coins and then swapping a distant third.
I assume you're referring to members like the youngster Zuluraptorspace, he seems to use the site mostly for getting advice from older collectors regarding grades and values, and I see nothing wrong with that at all.
If their parents have said they're not allowed to swap then we have no right to try and overturn that. Some younger kids have no idea of the value of what they had and can agree to swaps that are heavily in favour of the other party, remember one of the younger ones ( I forget who it was now) was gaga for Wheat cents and said they'd happily take a wheat cent over an Edward VII florin. There are many out there that would try to take advantage, I get requests all the time from people trying it on. They send a request for all the silver coins in my swap list and all they have to offer is modern rubbish that I could pick up in a kilo bulk bag if I wanted to. So just respect the wishes of the younger member's parents. If they say they're not allowed to swap, just leave it be.
There have been two occasions where I witnessed such statements. If their parents are not here to answer, I see no harm in getting their feedback. Like I said, they already bring it up on their own in other conversations.
Just like you, I took about a year before my first swap here. Chatting is ok, but, first you need the interesting topics and not someone who tries to discourage talking. I wanted to use the website mainly as a place to chat. Turns out, that with 20 000 to now 30 000+ members, it's not easy to find a steady conversation.
I think it is a primarily swap driven website. The catalogue is what makes the swapping possible. Without the incentive to add a coin meant for swap, this catalogue wouldn't even be half its size.
I don't see anything wrong with not wanting to swap. I know my reasons for not being gung-ho about swapping through Numista. I have no intention of undermining their parents instructions. I just wanted to know what their reasoning is/was.
Maybe a good Numista defense or security idea is just around the corner, as a result of this conversation.
Yup, there is probably more than a handful of such restrictions. You already know that approx. 2/3 to 3/4 of new members never even enter a single coin (I don't remember the stats exactly).
Quote: bam777The site has so much more than swaps going on!
The site has a catalogue going for it, but, without safe and secure swaps into the future, it will stagnate. It takes a topic about the BUMP to get more than a handful of replies. What does that tell us?
Quote: bam777If they can't swap: so be it! I wouldn't say it was a loss!
This might be the most insensitive thing I've ever seen written, from you.
Quote: eminemwhen I started over two years ago as a 14 year old, the issues were trusting people to actually send coins and if sent, have them be fair deals.
See, here we go, fair deals and trust to send coins. I agree, there are individuals here who prey on fresh rookie meat and couldn't agree on a fair deal, if their life depended on it.
Just to get a newbie started on his/her first swap, I would suggest good large coin photos and a third independent party to advise or mediate.
to be fair. My child would definately not be swapping or giving out his/her address and postal details on the internet to anyone it could be a peadophiles playgrouund for all they know.
i think there should probably be an age limit for swapping to be honest. 16 should suffice since technically at that age they are no longer a minor.
Quote: Mark240590..it could be a peadophiles playgrouund for all they know.
Priceless, fear of pedophiles. You can't think this stuff up on your own, it takes many minds to come up with such an array of concerns.
My suggestion would be to not swap locally and use parents or relatives business address. I have personally declined a meeting to swap locally, with an individual who was under 18, it's just common sense. We used Canada Post and kept it professional. I have also sent coins to a parent's place of work in another country. Makes perfect sense to me.
As an adult, if you get the feeling that the maturity level just isn't there, decline the swap.
Again I make the point that younger members often don't know the value of things. When I was a kid I found a 1900 penny in a building site that was in poor condition and had a hole drilled in it. I thought it was valuable because it was almost 100 years old at the time. I put it on a leather thong and wore it round my neck. Now I wouldn't even bother picking one out if I found it in a bulk lot. Younger kids often don't know what they have and there are plenty who would take advantage of that. Having a third party mediate sounds like a complex type of system to implement. I prefer the idea that having an age limit. If the parents of a kid don't think their children are mature enough to be swapping on-line with strangers then why would we know any better.
Quote: neilithicHaving a third party mediate sounds like a complex type of system to implement. I prefer the idea that having an age limit. If the parents of a kid don't think their children are mature enough to be swapping on-line with strangers then why would we know any better.
Again, I am not debating whether they should or should not swap. I am also not arguing with the parents. I'm just curious as to the reasons, fears, concerns, etc. regarding swapping here on Numista.
There is no harm in having a buddy system, especially if established members are willing to help, guide and answer questions. This would be entirely on an ask and volunteer basis. Didn't you just finish writing the following...
Quote: neilithicI assume you're referring to members like the youngster Zuluraptorspace, he seems to use the site mostly for getting advice from older collectors regarding grades and values, and I see nothing wrong with that at all.
A simple "Welcome and Get Started" email, sent automatically to every new member, can offer lots of advice, suggestions and info, up front.
I don't see why you bring up my previous comment. I have no problem with kids asking for advice from more knowledgable members, but when swapping comes into it I know my son is an idiot when it comes to money and would give away his most prized posession if someone asked nicely, I would never let him swap anything with someone on-line unless I oversaw the whole transaction myself and had been in to check out the swappers reputation. Even then I'd be dubious about letting him swap anything worth more than a couple of dollars. Obviously I'm not the only parent who feels this way.
You want to know fears fom a parent's point of view, that's mine. I'd be concerned that my son would accumulate a decent collection of things and then get swindled by someone who offers him something that looks appealing but is basically worthless.
I brought it up, because advice and mediation does not have to be harder than what you described in the quoted text.
Sounds like you care more about your son's material possessions, than he might. Is he even a member on Numista?
I started this topic because, there are actual members here, who every so often bring up their restriction, and reading it, you just get the feeling they wish they could join in.
I thought it might make a good topic if I asked the reasons for their restriction(s). Getting you to call your son an "idiot", wasn't my intention. Trust me, I am not offering a lesson in parenting. I am merely asking, what caution flags relate to Numista and coins, directly. Just Numista and coins.
So, your concerns are primarily value driven, with a hint of getting swindled. I can respect that. There are many honest tricks and precautions you can politely work into a swap, preventing a swindle. The value driven part is something that comes with experience. Common sense is difficult to teach, it's more like an instinct.
Of course we have to care more about our children's material possessions than them because younger children often do not understand about value. I didn't say my son was an idiot, I said he was an idiot when it came to money as most children are before they learn about value.
He is only 8 and not on here because he does not collect coins yet, just rugby cards. He's shown an interest in coins but I won't get him started for a few years yet because he buys rugby cards with his pocket money and then prompty gives them away if someone says "hey that's a nice one, mind if I have it" I even caught him trying to give away $10 out of his wallet that he'd saved up for three weeks because the next door neighbour's kid asked for it.
You might say 8 is too young to be on here anyway but on the "what's your age" thread we had one 9 year old, and several that were 10-14. Should we let them loose on the swaps? Sure kids want to get connected and take part in swaps, but if their parents say no then most likely thay won't be happy no matter what restrictions you put on the site. Of course it's up to the individual parents and some will be happy to let their kids swap, but I think that personally the idea of 16 years old not being a minor being a rough guide for when you can start swapping is a good idea
I imagine these are the main bullet points for why some members aren't allowed to swap:
Privacy/safety: The more times you put your address out there, the more people that know where you live
Privacy: The more information you put out there, the higher the risk of fraud/id theft
Risk: This is where the value of the swap comes into play.
Now I think that all of those issues could be mitigated with parental involvement. If a child wants to swap, then the parent should take an active interest in the site and their kids hobby as well. If they don't feel like doing that, then I feel not letting them swap is perfectly acceptable.
"What we are is not as important as what we aren't"
Quote: glorkarI imagine these are the main bullet points for why some members aren't allowed to swap:
Privacy/safety: The more times you put your address out there, the more people that know where you live
Privacy: The more information you put out there, the higher the risk of fraud/id theft
Risk: This is where the value of the swap comes into play.
Now I think that all of those issues could be mitigated with parental involvement. If a child wants to swap, then the parent should take an active interest in the site and their kids hobby as well. If they don't feel like doing that, then I feel not letting them swap is perfectly acceptable.
Nicely put. When I was a child we nether had a computer let alone the net so stuff like this was never an issue. It's still quite a modern problem for parents to deal with. I think we should actively encourage children below a certain age to have their parents involved in their activity on Numista from the onset. If they could be sent an email upon joining the site advising them of potential risks and to get parents or an older sibling to join them, it would go a long way to promote Numista as a safe family-friendly site.
Plus it may also encorage parents into the hobby as well.
Being I am new to the site, I may be missing something but ......
In the U.S. children under 18 are not allowed to enter into any contract.
The swap would have to be made with the parent.
And I understand and support neilithic's point of 'So just respect the wishes of the younger member's parents. If they say they're not allowed to swap, just leave it be. "
And to torontokuba your comment, ''No, I'd rather bring it up.
There have been two occasions where I witnessed such statements. If their parents are not here to answer, I see no harm in getting their feedback. Like I said, they already bring it up on their own in other conversations.''
Just who's feedback is it you want? The Childs? Do you expect a young kid to convey or even fully understand themselves what their parents concerns are?
You may just be trying to find a way to alleviate a parents concerns, but I think you may be going at it the wrong way.
And your comment to neilithic
"Sounds like you care more about your son's material possessions, than he might. Is he even a member on Numista?'' and
"Getting you to call your son an "idiot", wasn't my intention." was uncalled for.
I hope you understand attacking people will not ''alleviate'' anyones concerns.
...attacking?, ...whose feedback?, ...contract? Are you feeling ok? These type of comments are the reason why you can't have a serious topic on Numista. (Better?)
There is no contract here, it's the honour system with swaps.
If neilithic feels attacked, he'll let me know. Last I checked, from his first post in this thread, he keeps trying to take this topic in a controversial direction. I thought we were conversing just fine, despite any misunderstandings.
Feedback of the individuals or members who are here and make comments stating they are not allowed to swap. Parents on the site should also share their thoughts. I'm not asking specifically for kids to respond, just active mambers who seem to have restrictions for whatever reason. I don't know their ages. I'm pretty sure that at 14, I was able to order by mail, have pen pal friends around the world and use the Post Office safely for packages.
Quote: SilverDaveBeing I am new to the site ,I may be missing something but ......
Quote: Walder CoinsIf they could be sent an email upon joining the site advising them of potential risks and to get parents or an older sibling to join them, it would go a long way to promote Numista as a safe family-friendly site.
Plus it may also encorage parents into the hobby as well.
Quote: neilithicYou might say 8 is too young to be on here anyway but on the "what's your age" thread we had one 9 year old, and several that were 10-14. Should we let them loose on the swaps? Sure kids want to get connected and take part in swaps, but if their parents say no then most likely thay won't be happy no matter what restrictions you put on the site. Of course it's up to the individual parents and some will be happy to let their kids swap, but I think that personally the idea of 16 years old not being a minor being a rough guide for when you can start swapping is a good idea
This is good feedback. Many here share a view of 16 or older as the right age to start swapping. Of course, most of us know that this is impossible to enforce.
Age 8, 9, 10 - 14, this remains a reality on the site, whether you want to discuss it or not. Thread is voluntary.
The problem is there are some mature young people and some immature young people.
I like to think I'm a fair judge of where my children are at, and at the moment until I can teach him about the value of things he's giving away then I would not be happy with him swapping. However there are some members who are remarkably mature.
I was really suprised to find Eminem was only 15-16 when I swapped with him first up because he didn't act like a teen. On the other hand, there was one member (I can't remember his name) who was 14, he came on the threads and acted like a complete brat. He asked for advice on what his coin was worth and then argued and was abusive when he didn't get the response he wanted. I think it's best to let parents decide when their kids are mature enough to swap.
Although I do like the idea of the automatic e-mail sent out when people sign up, outlining the risks and the way the site works. It shouldn't be too hard to set up. I got an automatic one sent out yesterday from Xavier wishing me a happy birthday so the facility is obviously there.
There would be no way in heck my child would be socalizing so freely without me knowing it. EVERYTHING they do on the internet has to be cleared by me.
Zuluraptorspace,
What's the deal with your mom? I have read across a few threads that you are concerned what your mom would say or do about this or that? Does she or doesn't she know of your hobbies? Does she or doesn't she get involed with what you do on this site or internet in general?
Heads or tails? I dunno. I don't see a head or a tail...
Any time you agree to swap with another person it would be a contract between the two. It doesn't have to be a written one. And I believe it would be wrong for any adult to trade with a child without the parents knowledge.
And yes torontokuba ,I am feeling alright. Thanks for asking.
Quote: ilikecoinsWhat's the deal with your mom? She is very overprotective.
Does she or doesn't she know of your hobbies? She knows I collect coins, but she doesn't really care for it. She likes painted coins, though.
Does she or doesn't she get involed with what you do on this site or internet in general? Not this site, and not much about the internet.
Quote: SilverDaveAny time you agree to swap with another person it would be a contract between the two. It doesn't have to be a written one. And I believe it would be wrong for any adult to trade with a child without the parents knowledge.
And yes torontokuba ,I am feeling alright. Thanks for asking.
What is your definition of a child? Age bracket, please.
Imaginary international contracts, all through a French website, that wants no part of any responsibility in anything that goes on here, according to terms of use. Hmm, enjoy your contract swaps, if you ever get there.
I was the stupidest kid ever and I blame my parents for it :)
When I was 7, my uncle gave me about 1000 stamps and I gave them to a girl that I liked. My father had a collection of Panini World Cup sticker albums, I cut all the stickers out and those would worth big money today. He also had a collection of chess boards and I played with figures and lost many....
My wife is pregnant, I already know that all my coins will be locked in a safe place and the key will be hidden :)
daryl 
Trust me, I am not offering a lesson in parenting. I am merely asking, what caution flags relate to Numista and coins, directly. Just Numista and coins.
