Italian States coins -- Help distinguish the genuine from fake

Hi all,

Any experts on Italian states and co-interest friends, you are welcome to help me tell these coins. These coins are belong to Chinese collecters and coins dealers (Some are my friends, some just business men). I was studying with them and we have doubt on all these coins. All of them meet the specification of weight and size.

1- Sardinia 1821 5 lire KM 115

It is an NGC ID coin, but my doubt is still there.
a- NGC label error, wrong KM# (it is for Carlo Felix 1821 5L), of course, NGC will make mistakes too.
b- The dealer hide the verification No., maybe for privacy.
c-  I circle it, the below knot of Savoy is kind of wrong for me.(See 3rd photo)



2- Sardinia 1821 5 lire KM115
a- I circle it, the below knot of Savoy is wrong for me
b- The below left knot of Savoy is disconnected as I circled
c- Too new for me.


3- Tuscany 1747 10 paoli C#8 Dav#1504
Just the tone, I don't feel good.


4- Lucca 1837 2 lire C#41
Low pressure and bad style for me


5- Due sicilie  1813 40 lire KM#266
a- I know there are lots of varities, but didn't find one with dot after legend both sides.
b- the reverse, the 40 is too far from each other for me
c- the reverse, the legend does not match the palm and laurel branches
d- the obverse,small 1813, never see  a real example for me


6- Due sicilie 1818 120 grana KM#285
Low pressure for me



7- Lucca 1834 lira C#40
Looks genuine for me, just the style is not feeling good .


So now is your turn, help me with this. Thank you so much.

Samuel

I have seen your post and I want to give you an answer. I state that I'm not an expert about Italian states coins (I'm more expert about Italy Kingdom) so this is purely my opinion, however I hope to be helpful.

1) & 2) This is a very rare coin since it has been minted in the last three months of reign of King Vittorio Emanuele I. Less than 35000 pieces have been minted, but they may be much less. For this reason this coin is very expensive and many counterfeits exists. In my opinion the n° 2 is false but I have reserve also for the first one even if NGC is quite a garantee. The reason is exactly that you noticed: the knot below the shield is not perfectly aligned. In this example, instead is aligned: http://www.icollector.com/Casa-Savoia-Monetazione-Decimale-Da-5-lire-1821_i8693580  

3) For me is genuine even if very worn

4) It's difficoult to distinguish if it's fake or not, maybe with diameter and weight it can be easier, but here you are other examples: http://numismatica-italiana.lamoneta.it/moneta/W-CLB/1

5) For me is fake, too poor details and different lettering style. Also the points that you marked are not present in any variant of this coin.

6) As for coin 4 need the weight and diameter. Of this coin exists a lot of variant (quite 16!!!!!) but it seems real (? )

7) This seems real however look here: http://numismatica-italiana.lamoneta.it/moneta/W-CLB/2

I'm no expert on Italian states and this is pretty tough...but I'm going to stick my neck out and say that all of them are fake apart from number 3.

Thank you, guys. Your reply is pretty helpful.
 

I just find a website. https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=373&lot=10524
The photo of 1821 5 lire is just overthrow my point. The knot is just like the two ones I listed,which is different from the italiano site. I am confused that a one year type have two different dies with different knot pattern?

Just share with you guys.

Samuel

Hi all,

I have compare the detail (trace of die) between the Auction One (The November 2012 Baltimore Auction Lot #10524. ITALY. Sardinia. 5 Lire, 1821-L. NGC AU Details--Surface Hairlines)and the ones I listed. I am now thinking maybe they are genuine now. See the picture below, I marked the similar trace.

Anyone agree with me?

Samuel

In my opinion the 5 lire 1820 is a fake, there's a lot of great fake of this coin.
Fabio Benedetti

Hi Everyone - I know nothing about coins but, this was given to me by my grandfather, about 50 years ago. He fought in World War 1 and was probably stationed in southern Europe.

I imagine this must be a genuine 1821 Carlo Felix 5 lire coin.

Nice 5 Lire coin from Sardinia https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces18353.html
altough you should have probably better created a new topic.
Seems like its original and with quite a high value.
Yours seem to be around the F grade and that would value it at around 400-600$
https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/italian-states-sardinia-5-lire-km-116.1-1821-1831-cuid-120871-duid-309175