The Joachimsthal Pestthaler is NOT a medal [solved]

Not sure why this was categorized as a medal despite me explicitly registering it as a coin… primarily Dannenberg H. Die deutschen Münzen der sächsischen und fränkischen Kaiserzeit catalogues this coin and it IS a thaler, legally a coin struck to thaler specs (Dannenberg does not catalogize medals).

It is highly incorrect incorrect to categorize it as “commemorative medal” as it is a coin, a thaler struck to that spec and used for circulation. Some auction houses mistakenly categorize it as medal but this is not correct and it is a bad practice. In the interest of keeping the data quality of Numista correct and accurate it should be changed to circulating commemorative coin.

Made an edit request.

A comment should be added to the general comments about the information you have. This may prevent someone from just changing it back to a commemorative medal.

What let you think it is a coin?? No facevalue whatsoever is on it.
I would agree that it is a medal.

There are hundreds of thousands of coins out there with no face value noted on them. If you are not knowledgeable on the subject please refrain from commenting. Thank you.

yvon

What let you think it is a coin?? No facevalue whatsoever is on it.
I would agree that it is a medal.

Um dude. Look at any Thaler from this time and Even into the 1700’s they don’t have denominations written on them. Just like uk stuff didn’t until the mid 1800’s. 

Rhyfelwr

There are hundreds of thousands of coins out there with no face value noted on them. If you are not knowledgeable on the subject please refrain from commenting. Thank you.

It looks like a medal, no matter what you say. If you are so convinced it is a coin, come with some evidence, please.

silvergeek

yvon

What let you think it is a coin?? No facevalue whatsoever is on it.
I would agree that it is a medal.

Um dude. Look at any Thaler from this time and Even into the 1700’s they don’t have denominations written on them. Just like uk stuff didn’t until the mid 1800’s. 

for German coins you only really have values written on stuff that is below a Thaler and even then you dont have that. Not many Thalers until the 1830’s even said Thaler on them

yvon

Rhyfelwr

There are hundreds of thousands of coins out there with no face value noted on them. If you are not knowledgeable on the subject please refrain from commenting. Thank you.

It looks like a medal, no matter what you say. If you are so convinced it is a coin, come with some evidence, please.

dude. I work with thalers, the weight is the same exact as thalers from this time. you can maybe stop saying things until maybe you have evidence against  it. Also if it were a medal there would not be so many examples that have evidence of wear.

yvon

Rhyfelwr

There are hundreds of thousands of coins out there with no face value noted on them. If you are not knowledgeable on the subject please refrain from commenting. Thank you.

It looks like a medal, no matter what you say. If you are so convinced it is a coin, come with some evidence, please.

I am under no obligation to explain myself to you especially after that opener but:

1. These were stuck to Thaler spec on thaler planchets and subject to the thaler pure silver weight of the time.

2. It is catalogued by Dannenberg under German state thalers as a circulating coin, he does not catalogue medals in his books and he is a leading expert on the subject.

3. Thalers like this were common at the time commemorating events, disseminating propaganda etc. They were very much used as circulating coins much like we have commemorative circulating coins today. Since the craftmanship involved increased value beyond silver they often were kept as keepstakes, but just like some super rare commemorative coin you could pay with them any time you wished. 

4. Many specimens show clear traces of circulation. 

Rhyfelwr

yvon

Rhyfelwr

There are hundreds of thousands of coins out there with no face value noted on them. If you are not knowledgeable on the subject please refrain from commenting. Thank you.

It looks like a medal, no matter what you say. If you are so convinced it is a coin, come with some evidence, please.

I am under no obligation to explain myself to you especially after that opener but:

 

1. These were stuck to Thaler spec on thaler planchets and subject to the thaler pure silver weight of the time.

2. It is catalogued by Dannenberg under German state thalers as a circulating coin, he does not catalogue medals in his books and he is a leading expert on the subject.

3. Thalers like this were common at the time commemorating events, disseminating propaganda etc. They were very much used as circulating coins much like we have commemorative circulating coins today. Since the craftmanship involved increased value beyond silver they often were kept as keepstakes, but just like some super rare commemorative coin you could pay with them any time you wished. 

4. Many specimens show clear traces of circulation. 

👆

Rhyfelwr

yvon

Rhyfelwr

There are hundreds of thousands of coins out there with no face value noted on them. If you are not knowledgeable on the subject please refrain from commenting. Thank you.

It looks like a medal, no matter what you say. If you are so convinced it is a coin, come with some evidence, please.

I am under no obligation to explain myself to you especially after that opener but:

 

1. These were stuck to Thaler spec on thaler planchets and subject to the thaler pure silver weight of the time.

2. It is catalogued by Dannenberg under German state thalers as a circulating coin, he does not catalogue medals in his books and he is a leading expert on the subject.

3. Thalers like this were common at the time commemorating events, disseminating propaganda etc. They were very much used as circulating coins much like we have commemorative circulating coins today. Since the craftmanship involved increased value beyond silver they often were kept as keepstakes, but just like some super rare commemorative coin you could pay with them any time you wished. 

4. Many specimens show clear traces of circulation. 

So what you are actually saying is: it is a circulating commerative coin. Ok that makes sense. My first impression was a medal, but ok if I got it wrong,  fair enough. I joined the discussion because I find it an intresting coin.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesttaler

While Wikipedia is a useful resource, it is not infallible; notably, the entry in question uses three conflicting terms for the same object. However, authoritative numismatic literature, including sources cited within that very article consistently designates this piece as a Schauthaler (show thaler), not a medal.

This distinction is critical. In German numismatics, Schauthalers are classified as coins. Unlike medals, which had no fixed value, Schauthalers were struck to the specific weight and alloy standards of the Thaler. This meant they were legal tender and could be used as payment.

Furthermore, this piece features the official mint control mark of the Joachimsthal Mintmaster, Utz Gebhart (a crescent moon with a cross above). This mark legally guaranteed the silver purity and authorized the issue on behalf of the state. Such control marks were a mandatory requirement for circulating currency but were neither required for nor common practice on private medals.