Philip I Antioch Tetradrachm? [solved]

Hi -

   I received this coin which was identified as a Philip I Antioch Tetradrachm SNG Cop 263 (https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/philip_I/_antioch_SNGCop_263.jpg) which is maybe this Numista coin (hN#154242).  Now that I've gotten it home and looked at it closer, I am wondering about the identification - chiefly because the Eagle's head is pointing right (not left) and the lettering spacing above the Eagle is different.  Also its hard to see, but it looks like to me that the lettering on the obverse is not correct.  I show a close up photo and it doesn't appear to me that the lettering at the bottom left of the coin is “AYTOK K M IOYΛ” - the two letters that are supposed to be back-to-back K's don't look the same.  However, I don't pretend to be an expert and I might just not be seeing the important bits.  I paid what for me is a lot ($70) and I just want to make sure the identification is correct.

     Thanks much - Ctwink

Hello,

The general ID looks right. The catch on the obverse was that the “AYTOK K M” started below the neck. Unfortunately I can't read anything after it.

For the reverse, I don't think it's the exact coin you linked, but there are others with shorter letterings.

Here's my search at RPC with Antioch tetradrachms of Philip I: https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?volume_id=&number=&city_id=25&region_id=&province_id=&subprovince_id=&issue_id=&reign_id=15&obverse_inscription_simplified=&reverse_inscription_simplified=%CE%94%CE%97%CE%9C%CE%91%CE%A1%CE%A7&obverse_design=radiate&reverse_design=eagle+standing+left%2C+head+right&metal_id=&weight_min=&weight_max=&diameter_min=&diameter_max=&format=

Unfortunately, none of these results is 100% identical to your coin. This could come closer if it wasn't the eagle looking at the other direction: https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/type/29183

But on Numista, the coin you linked is by far the closest one from the few ones on our catalog. It could be a placeholder in the meantime.

Thanks for the quick reply.  Thankfully there are much fewer coins with the head right AND only “SC” as the mintage.

My chief concern was that it was a different emperor entirely.  However, I've looked through about 40 other emperors around the time of Philip I and found only one that was VERY similar but all the Eagles from that Emperor had a letter between the legs.

Ctwink

Thanks for the quick reply.  Thankfully there are much fewer coins with the head right AND only “SC” as the mintage.

 

My chief concern was that it was a different emperor entirely.  However, I've looked through about 40 other emperors around the time of Philip I and found only one that was VERY similar but all the Eagles from that Emperor had a letter between the legs.

It was my concern too, at the beginning. But right now, if you return to my search and remove the Philip at the parameters, only a few Gordian III would be added to the results.

Hi, it's not Philip, but Volusian!

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=6791382

Oh yep - I agree!

I saw the text below the bust - thanks much!

How did I miss that? Perhaps we focused only on Philip, or something on my search fields was too specific…

Alright, back to RPC, we have some exact matches in this new search focused on Volusian: https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/browse?volume_id=&number=&city_id=25&region_id=&province_id=&subprovince_id=&issue_id=&reign_id=&person_id%5B%5D=54&obverse_inscription_simplified=&reverse_inscription_simplified=&obverse_design=&reverse_design=eagle&metal_id=&weight_min=&weight_max=&diameter_min=&diameter_max=&format=

The basic differences between all these types is the orientation of the eagle and the letter between the eagle's legs. Can you see anything there?

Secondly, we don't have anything like that on our catalog, as you can check here: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=roman-provinces&r=volusian&st=all&cat=y&im1=&im2=&ru=&ie=&ca=3&no=&v=&a=&dg=&i=&b=&m=&f=&t=&t2=&w=&mt=&u=&g=

So we would need to add it here. But should we add them in separate pages or group all these minor variations in a single page?

I clearly just need to figure out the symbol between the Eagle's legs - looks like probably a Δ or a Γ.

The other determining factor is the large gap between the X E and the Ξ symbols with the beak pointing at the gap between the letter.

Looks alot like this maybe - https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/volusian/_antioch_Prieur_698.jpg 

As far as adding - seems like you could have one page with the variations as far as the direction the eagle's head is pointing and the letter between its legs - right?  Of course I have no idea how to do it, but I would make it as simple as possible - right?

Ctwink

As far as adding - seems like you could have one page with the variations as far as the direction the eagle's head is pointing and the letter between its legs - right?  Of course I have no idea how to do it, but I would make it as simple as possible - right?

Right.

So I'll start tinkering with the page creation, got a rough idea of what to do with all these variants.

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Edit: Done, just pending approval: N#483497 

In the end, used only half of the coins of the search list, because the second half had a different lettering: “ΔΗΜΑΡΧ ΕΞΟΥϹΙΑϹ ΥΠΑ ΤΟ Β, S C” instead of “ΔΗΜΑΡΧ ΕΞΟΥϹΙΑϹ, S C”.

Sweet!  Much thanks Giobruno!

Ctwink

Sweet!  Much thanks Giobruno!

Don't thank me yet, the page is still unpublished and pending approval.

One thing I forgot to tell you, in that page I've put only a half dozen yearlines for the mintmark letters, as the reverse description I made covers both the left and right positionings for the eagle.

Yeah - that's what I anticipated.

Bumping this thread to give an update: the new page finally got approved.

Now you can finally go there and enter the coin into your collection.

Sweet - thanks!!!

You're welcome.

And I forgot to tell one thing: During the referee's validation, some rework was done. Now the page I've created covers only the type with eagle facing right, like yours. The type with same lettering but with eagle facing left got a page of it's own.