Automatic catalogue page titles

Hello,

Here is a heads-up on our next major development. As announced in the 2025 plan, we intend to generate the titles of coins, banknotes, etc. automatically instead of crafting them manually according to the guidelines.

There are two main goals for this change:

1. The titles should be available in all the languages of the website. For example, a German visitor looking at German coins on Numista in German should see the titles in German, not in English.
2. Our guidelines for the titles are quite complex. Automating the title creation will facilitate contributions for everyone.

The titles will be based on existing fields (type of object, denomination, ruling authority, issuing entity, and commemorated event) and two new fields that will add:

• nickname (nicknames are currently only mentioned in the title, between quotes)
• distinguishing features (to store all the information we currently store between brackets in the title, except the commemorated event).

The commemorated event in the title will be shortened and translated automatically from the current field for commemorated event.

Our aim is to generate the titles as closely as possible to the current guidelines. There will be some adjustments though: for example, we won't be able to keep the rule the ruling authority is named in the title only if it is depicted on the item.

I can not wait to see this! 

There are some special cases that could need more fields for add to title. Replicas (and maybe other medals) have denomination and ruling authority fields in blank, but they have these data in the title: N#380075

Thanks for your feedback and warning about replicas.
 

I believe the most appropriate solution would be to store the identification of the replicated coin in the new field “distinguishing features”. It would transform the title into “Replica (20 Pesetas - Alfonso XIII)”, similar to this other replica: N#391022

Ok.

And these tokens? https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=espagne&r=%22suerte+y+salud%22+madrid&st=all&cat=y&im1=&im2=&ru=&ie=&ca=3&no=&v=&a=&dg=&i=&b=&m=&f=&t=&t2=&w=&mt=&u=&g=&c=&wi=&sw=

Could be:

Good luck tokens (1 Euro - Madrid; pink)

or

Good luck tokens • Madrid (1 Euro; pink)

?

 I thought the new titles would be made up by taking parts 

from various sections - and therefore surely this random example  

N#443540 

in the section 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?cat=y&st=27 

would also be referenced somewhere in the new title - ideally in brackets at the end. 

 So though that section is titled ‘Coin replicas’ then the system 

would just add [Replica) at the end? 

davidhs

Ok.

 

And these tokens? https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=espagne&r=%22suerte+y+salud%22+madrid&st=all&cat=y&im1=&im2=&ru=&ie=&ca=3&no=&v=&a=&dg=&i=&b=&m=&f=&t=&t2=&w=&mt=&u=&g=&c=&wi=&sw=

Could be:

Good luck tokens (1 Euro - Madrid; pink)

or

Good luck tokens • Madrid (1 Euro; pink)

?

Yes. I would say “Good luck token (1 Euro; Madrid; pink)”

ZacUK

 I thought the new titles would be made up by taking parts 

from various sections - and therefore surely this random example  

N#443540 

in the section 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?cat=y&st=27 

would also be referenced somewhere in the new title - ideally in brackets at the end. 

 So though that section is titled ‘Coin replicas’ then the system 

would just add [Replica) at the end? 

The titles will be made up of the following fields:

• type of object
• denomination
• ruling authority
• issuing entity
• commemorated event (automatically shortened and translation)
• nickname (new field to be added)
• distinguishing features (new field to be added)

For the example you gave, the information “Medal - Algérie Commémoration Victoire Française” is currently indicated in the title only. We should move it the new field “distinguishing features”. So the title will be: “Replica (Medal - Algérie Commémoration Victoire Française)”.

 OK, thanks :) 

What about tokens or medals where the location is mentioned in the title but no where else?

N#310179

N#420104

N#339532

N#134786

N#324423

We can keep any useful information in the new field “distinguishing details”. We'll take care of this migration at launch time.

One of my regrets for tokens is that we are missing many issuing entities. For your first example, we should add “Birmingham Transit Company” as the issuing entity. The title will become: Public transportation token - Birmingham Transit Company (1 Fare; Birmingham, Alabama)".

The question of storing the precise location of tokens is a wider topic, for which I don't have a solution yet.

Probably a good idee to save the old titles in a field visible only in the modification mode as to not lose any essential info about the item.

BramVB

Probably a good idee to save the old titles in a field visible only in the modification mode as to not lose any essential info about the item.

I like this idea. We will do. 

Xavier

One of my regrets for tokens is that we are missing many issuing entities. For your first example, we should add “Birmingham Transit Company” as the issuing entity. The title will become: Public transportation token - Birmingham Transit Company (1 Fare; Birmingham, Alabama)".

Ok. Add the issuing entity to the list https://en.numista.com/forum/topic164556.html#p1269513 for complete the information.😊

I do not know if you thought about doing these…

Xavier

The titles will be made up of the following fields:

• type of object
• denomination
• ruling authority
• commemorated event (automatically shortened and translation)
• nickname (new field to be added)
• distinguishing features (new field to be added)

and the issuing entity.

Could be useful add a copy of these values in the title of the edit page, and modify these values when the original value is  changed.

I will try to explain the idea. The edit page of the replica N#476372 will have a zone (read-only input field, block of text…) in the title line. When the values are changed, they are copied here. This way, the user know what the title will be like.

I did not added the new fields (nickname, distinguishing features) in the image.

I edited my previous comment to clarify that we plan to use the field for issuing entity.

 Yes, thanks 

davidhs

I can not wait to see this! 

 

There are some special cases that could need more fields for add to title. Replicas (and maybe other medals) have denomination and ruling authority fields in blank, but they have these data in the title: N#380075

Replicas is an important one from my perspective too, as it's very easy to identify and catalogue some coins as genuine when they're clearly fake.  

LDC63

 

Replicas is an important one from my perspective too, as it's very easy to identify and catalogue some coins as genuine when they're clearly fake.  

Won't having Replica in the title as already stated solve this issue?

fjjohnson

LDC63

 

Replicas is an important one from my perspective too, as it's very easy to identify and catalogue some coins as genuine when they're clearly fake.  

Won't having Replica in the title as already stated solve this issue?

Problem is that, although some coins have ‘Copy’ or ‘WRL’ or some other obvious reproduction mark, plenty do not have anything other than the title on the page (awa ‘Type - Coin replica') to identify them as a Replica (e.g. N#481601).  Difficult to automate a process for labelling when the basic fundamental detail doesn't exist.

Also, we currently have a system where Replica (in most cases) appears in the title, so it's really clear that the item is a copy of an original coin (especially useful for new members or beginners).  Unfortunately, that point seems lost on some Referees who appear to rely on people spotting in the small print of a page that the ‘Type’ has been marked as ‘Coin replica’.  

The main point I'm making is that these items need to be clearly identified as a ‘Replica’ in the title, not buried in the detail.  If that is what's proposed, fine by me. 

If I understand correctly what was written above https://en.numista.com/forum/topic164556.html#p1269513 Type of object (Coin replica) will be part of the title.

fjjohnson

If I understand correctly what was written above https://en.numista.com/forum/topic164556.html#p1269513 Type of object (Coin replica) will be part of the title.

Yes.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?p=1&ru=13001

how will be “In the name of” data managed? Are you going to add a specific issuer for every emperor?

and what about specific information to distinguish same but different coins?

see for exemple •ஃ• and ஃ ✿ ஃ

N#485956

N#478758

Distinguishing feature(s) will be a new field.

did you plan automatic titles also for medals?

see for exemple this discussion

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic169154.html#p1294738

cippirimerlo

did you plan automatic titles also for medals?

Yes, the same rules will apply to all objects. https://en.numista.com/forum/topic164556.html#p1269513

Xavier

The titles will be made up of the following fields:

• type of object
• denomination
• ruling authority
• issuing entity
• commemorated event (automatically shortened and translation)
• nickname (new field to be added)
• distinguishing features (new field to be added)

cippirimerlo

see for exemple this discussion

 

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic169154.html#p1294738

The object is N#525663

I suppose its title will be this or something similar:

Coin replica - Banca Commerciale Italiana (1 Scudo; Philip II)

• type: Coin replica
• denomination, and ruling authority: empty (it is a medal)
• issuing entity: Banca Commerciale Italiana https://en.numista.com/catalogue/issuing_entity.php?id=6746
• commemorated event: empty
• nickname: empty
• distinguishing features: 1 Scudo; Philip II

@Xavier please consider to add a field Countermark 

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic174301.html

About countermarks and counterstamps, the guidelines https://en.numista.com/help/coin-name-142.html say:

3. Conditional precisions

Countermarks

Specify in parentheses the mention “countermarked” and the value of the base type if it is different and known, or the name of the issuer or the ruler if they are different from those who used the mark:

Now we can add countermarked and counterstamped in the “Manufacturing technique(s)” field of a page. The system could be add this in the title, perhaps with a text field to add the type of countermark or counterstamp.