India 5 Rupees KM#154 Reeded & Smooth Edges

Hi All,

I've been trying to find a reeded or a smooth edge version of this coin for a few years, but whenever I've opened a swap with a user and asked for a picture of the edge it has always turned out to be a security edged coin and the user has entered it into the system incorrectly.

Along with trying to get the coin in a swap, I've been trying my own research and there are almost 0 pictures of these edges from what I can find.

The Numista community has been able to add a ‘smooth’ edged coin in the description section, but when I look at this, and the other forum post with a potential ‘reeded’ edge, I just see PMD, therefore it makes me question if the reeded or smooth edge variants actually exist or if they are just damaged coins/minting errors and perhaps should have a comment next to them saying so.

Here is the picture on the page, and I've marked on the ‘smooth’ edged coins what I believe is former evidence that it use to have a security edge and it's just been worn down so much to the point it appears smooth.

Could be a poor strike from the mint so the security edge wasn't properly applied or wear and tear have worn it down (we're fully aware of the poor quality of Indian coins from this era) 

I'm hoping to hear from the community if they do in fact have one of these, and means I'll just have to continue looking for them in swaps and shops, or if the consensus is these edges were indeed mistakes or PMD.

Thanks,

Andy

It is a great theory, but surely the issuing of different KM numbers for each edge version and for each mint would discount minting errors and would also be too soon for PMD to have occurred through circulation.

KM#154.1 = Security edge (2 types for Calcutta Mint, see Comments); KM154.2 = reeded, or KM154.3 = smooth edge.

KM would surely not have given 154.2 if there was a hint of a poorly minted Security edge. Likewise 154.3 would not have been given years later when the edge had smoothed out! 
 

I have 17 of these and they are all security edges, however just because I haven’t seen the alternative doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I understand they are rare, and many members could have mislabelled one for the other, but the fact that a different KM was issued should be respected surely?

Yeah, the fact they do have their own KM numbers does make it seem they aren't PMD like you say.

As for minting error, after a quick search, I have found an example of an ‘error strike’ getting a KM number: N#152635

I'd be tempted to say the smooth edge is definitely an error strike, maybe the reeded too, as why would Calcutta, Hyderabad and Mumbai all issue a security edge and non-security edge versions of the coins on purpose. Surely that defeats the point of having a security edge???

Like you King, I've got 27 of these coins in my collection and they are all security edges.

Curious to hear from anyone who does have a reeded or a smooth edge version, especially one in VF or higher, and where they obtained them.

BPhoenix23

Yeah, the fact they do have their own KM numbers does make it seem they aren't PMD like you say.

As for minting error, after a quick search, I have found an example of an ‘error strike’ getting a KM number: N#152635

I'd be tempted to say the smooth edge is definitely an error strike, maybe the reeded too, as why would Calcutta, Hyderabad and Mumbai all issue a security edge and non-security edge versions of the coins on purpose. Surely that defeats the point of having a security edge???

 

Like you King, I've got 27 of these coins in my collection and they are all security edges.

 

Curious to hear from anyone who does have a reeded or a smooth edge version, especially one in VF or higher, and where they obtained them.

I think the „error strike“ should really be explained as „struck in error“, no one strikes 5,000,000 errors so to speak. It is just here the reeded variety was struck instead of the security edge, not one being an error of the other? Especially as in later years there was both security and reeded versions.

I would be interested to see also, but something must have prompted these different KMs in the early 90s, not just collectors claiming variations and varieties ….

I seem to remember, that Dr. Wolfgang Schuster was the INDIA Contributor to the SCWC catalogs in those days, but I have not any more knowledge than that. My last contact with him was in 2008.

I just found this on the Yahoo search machine: https://independent.academia.edu/WolfgangSchuster3/CurriculumVitae

I had just a thought, what if in 1992 when the Indian government first introduced this 5 Rupees coin it mentioned somewhere that it would be struck with all 3 edges, or an either or type situation - so the KM.1.2&.3 were issued for the different edges, then for one reason or another everything was minted with the security edge. Following that (and I don’t know enough about how when the edge is added in the process) some coins had a very poor edge - the smooth, some were missing the middle part - the reeded? Listen to me, now I’m starting to believe in the possibility ! 
 

This member might know more; Joseph Kunnappally, but I don’t know his user name… anyone?
 

King

 

This member might know more; Joseph Kunnappally, but I don’t know his user name… anyone?
 

https://www.youtube.com/@josephkunnappally5940

or try @shamikb 

I occasionally see examples where the security edge wasn't applied well, usually on Calcutta mint coins with the large circle edge, but I've never seen any with it completely missing or a plain edge. If they do exist, I would be inclined to believe that they were made in error, however.

I've reached out to Shamikb to see if they have any information on these coin variants or know someone within the Indian coin society that might do.

@TheGame - I've seen a similar example myself of a poorly applied security edge with parts missing. Hopefully they aren't classifying them as one of the edge types!

I'll keep you posted when I get a response.

A quick update on the findings of these edges.

They seem to exist, certainly the reeded ones do, both Shamik got confirmation from a coin dealer and I have found these videos from the same guy on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=3pxxNfYjWQY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we6S8Nphac8
The translations are a bit poor when I switch on the English subtitles.

In the second video he has both the reeded and smooth edge ones.

Existence confirmed. Are they errors or not…the jury is still out I feel. 

I am sure these are errors. At least clumsy strikes.

So for all of the coins in 80s and 90s, the quality was lower and lower until recently. The important thing is the legal definition of the coin. For the all of the denomination there are partial security edges and partially smooth edges or even slightly visible reeding that is impossible to characterize one way or another. They are worthy to be mentioned but they are not collectable (sub)types.

1998 India 5 rupee.

For the others in this post - Nancy sent me a private message about the photographed coin. Answer has been sent.

从边缘来看，确实存在区别于安全边样式的齿边版本。不过从最左面那枚钱币的工艺来看，我认为这款5卢比也许是先在没有压制图案的币胚状态时通过滚边工艺压印了安全边中间斜杠与圆点的图案，然后在压印图案的流程中通过齿边垫圈压印了齿边，所以在工艺流程中出现了以下至少四种类型的边齿：理想状态的安全边、缺少压印中间环节的齿边、缺少压印两边齿边的光边安全边、以及完全没有压印任何边齿的光边。在收集过程中我收集到了一枚目前没有克劳斯目录编号的没有齿边的安全边版本，就是中间的这枚。

Thanks for showing those coins from your collection.

So sounds like you might have a new variant with the security edge with smooth sides.

I also found a plain edge coin in Rs 5, 2009, Kolkata 

Mint. Coin A is redded with thin legend “India” and Coin B is plain edge with thick legend “India” I have many coins in worst condition as compared to coin B and all have their reeded edge. So this coin in quite better condition with plain edge! Probably a real plain edge. And its equally full perfectly pain all over.