Add French Co-Princes of Andorra as ruling authorities

The French Co-Princes of Andorra are not available in the catalog, and therefor only the existing Spanish Co-Princes can be added. Requesting that the French Co-Princes be added to the catalog for Andorra coins and banknotes to page listing can display both rulers.

French Co-Princes to add to the catalog for Andorra (based on the issuing dates of coins and banknotes listed in the catalog):

Albert Lebrun (1932–1940)

Jacques Chirac (1995–2007)

Nicolas Sarkozy (2007–2012)

François Hollande (2012–2017)

Emmanuel Macron (2017–present)

Hi

Same suggestion was already rejected

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic118528.html#p998298

The previous post states:

“We held a debate on this, and concluded that French presidents should not be added, as per point 2.3. of guidelines.”

The only 2.3 in the guidelines I am seeing is talking about referees which doesn't seem related. What guideline is being discussed here?

Guidelines structure evolved since that time, but not its essence; you can reach out to other Admins or Xavier for further explanation

I know it is a complicated subject and I would not like to reopen it since a decision was made at the time and I accepted it without problem, we do not always have to agree on everything and this diversity of opinions makes our numismatic community bigger.

In any case, as a referee for Andorra and as I said at the time, I think the correct thing would be to add these rulers for 2 main reasons:

1. Andorra is, officially, a Principality with two Co-Princes as heads of State: The Bishop of Urgel and the President of France. It is not very logical to list only one of them when there are two Co-Princes.

2. As an argument it was said that Presidents were not included in this section, but in this case, Presidents would not be included either, but Co-Prince (due to the fact that he is President of France, but not as President of France). In the case of the Bishops of Urgel we do not write Bishop, but Co-prince, in this case it is the same, it would be Co-Prince. What is the point of putting Co-prince if only one of them is indicated?

That said, as always I will accept whatever decision is made without any problem.

I think the issue here is that we mix 2 dimensions of ruling authority : what they are in most case and what they are useful for

There is absolutely no use from my perspective of adding French présidents, and multiple successive ones for some types, to coins which don't ever mention them

It would just be a weird side effect of Numista using head of States as ruling authorities in monarchies and Régime in other states; and Andorra being probably a small edge case in the middle

In a nutshell : adding such weird info does not bring any value nor for sorting nor for numismatics imho.

I guess Bishops were added because they seem to be used as image on collector coins sorted as Andorra issues. 

“Depuis 1993, date de la première Constitution de la principauté, les coprinces deviennent chefs d'État indistincts, et le titre de viguier n'existe plus, remplacé par celui de « représentant personnel du coprince ». Le chef du gouvernement est issu du Conseil général, composé de vingt-huit membres élus par les sept paroisses, à raison de quatre conseillers par paroisse.”

The 2 coprinces are “indistinct rulers” legally, so on Numista the ruling authority could simply be a Régime called “Co-principality” or something like that, not mentionning the actual persons like we do for Republics

Your point of view and your explanations seem to me more than reasonable, so, as far as I am concerned, I consider this issue settled assuming that the decision taken is very logical. Thank you for your explanations. 😉

The Spanish Co-Prince is titled the Episcopal Co-Prince of Andorra.

The French Co-Princes have never been referred to on Andorra's pre-Euro medal-coin series.

Only the Spanish Co-Princes are named on them.

Aidan.