Following the partial merger of some Exonumia and the coins category some “ECU” and “Euro” coins have come under the coin section of Norway as “collector coins”. These are NOT issued by a government and are such not “collector coins” by Numista's own definition. They are purely medals issued by private companies with zero connection to the Norwegian goverment. A good example of this is N#228683 which even has “medalje” (medal) written on the reverse. I therefore kindly ask all items categorized as “collector coins” under the Norway issuer to be moved and recategorized as medals (with whatever subcategory that also might be appropriate).
Additionally, N#397453 is a pattern for a medal and should be moved to the medals category.
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Good question ; for SPanish one I saw @zegeri did the change; we can probably also invoke @Xavier in this discussion
My personal opinion is that we should in principle differentiate “official” ECU issues from pure marketing ones, but I don't think it's feasible really; maybe the whole ECU section should go from collector coins section to Exonumia ?
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For Norway this is not problematic. Norway never participated in the European Currency Unit (ECU) nor do we in the Euro. Any ECU and Euro are are such purely fantasy coins when it comes to Norway. They have zero connection to or official endorsement by the government and are only figment of imagination. I feel it is severely misleading towards collectors, especially new ones, to have these under coins rather than fantasy coins (medals).
Apart from that I agree a cleanup is necessary since a lot of non-coins have now been wrongly categorized.
And what about @T0r second question : “Additionally, N#397453 is a pattern for a medal and should be moved to the medals category.” > do we plan to have a medals > patterns sub category ?
Unless someone who knows well about these coins can help categorizing them, I'll keep the category for the moment.
I would honestly advocate for all "ECU & Pre 1999 Euro" to be categorized as tokens and/or medals unless the opposite is proven. My general impression is that most are unofficial rather than the other way around; although I might be wrong as it's an area I just avoid (for the reason of not being coins as far I see it).
Nevertheless, my request is just for these to be moved away from "coins" under the issuer “Norway” as in our case they just don't exist as anything but fantasy, unofficial or whatever term one might prefer to use. Keeping these under “coins” makes the word coin itself lose its meaning. If fictional medals such as N#228683 (which even reads “medal” and “not valid means of payment”) are categorized as coins then I believe we've made a huge mistake within our catalog.
I understand the broader debate is more complicated, but in this very specific instance which my request is regarding I think the solution is obvious. "ECU & Pre 1999 Euro" does not belong under coins within Norway.
I fully understand it's not an universal solution for every issuer. My concern is only for those categorized as coins under Norway. The request is solely aimed at moving those under Norway to medals or tokens. For the other places they were (or weren't) legal issues I have no opinion on, but for Norway they are 100% unofficial and unrelated.
I fully understand it's not an universal solution for every issuer. My concern is only for those categorized as coins under Norway. The request is solely aimed at moving those under Norway to medals or tokens. For the other places they were (or weren't) legal issues I have no opinion on, but for Norway they are 100% unofficial and unrelated.
Totally understood but, sorry if I repeat myself, I am confident our decision was not to “cut” the section anyhow. Even at the cost of such edge cases. I let @Xavier confirm if needed
In fact, I may reconsider : when I see this other series fromt he same company, https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?se=3008&ct=exonumia&p=1 I consider maybe the “ECU” series may have been wrongly considered as “1 ECU coins” series; 1 is not written on it; it is just medals with ECU written on it; and they are all attached to Germany in the series example above, we should probably do the same for ECU ones
I would honestly advocate for all "ECU & Pre 1999 Euro" to be categorized as tokens and/or medals unless the opposite is proven. My general impression is that most are unofficial rather than the other way around;
That's a valid option in my opinion. It would mean:
Delete the category “ECU & Pre 1999 Euro”.
Move items to “Local coins” or “Collector coins” when we know these categories are correct.
For the items we don't know, categorize as “Medals > Fantasy coins” by default. And we can reconsider case-by-case when some evidences pop up.
I would honestly advocate for all "ECU & Pre 1999 Euro" to be categorized as tokens and/or medals unless the opposite is proven. My general impression is that most are unofficial rather than the other way around;
That's a valid option in my opinion. It would mean:
Delete the category “ECU & Pre 1999 Euro”.
Move items to “Local coins” or “Collector coins” when we know these categories are correct.
For the items we don't know, categorize as “Medals > Fantasy coins” by default. And we can reconsider case-by-case when some evidences pop up.
I think this is the best, most accurate and most fair compromise. I think it would reduce the workload too.
I would honestly advocate for all "ECU & Pre 1999 Euro" to be categorized as tokens and/or medals unless the opposite is proven. My general impression is that most are unofficial rather than the other way around;
That's a valid option in my opinion. It would mean:
Delete the category “ECU & Pre 1999 Euro”.
Move items to “Local coins” or “Collector coins” when we know these categories are correct.
For the items we don't know, categorize as “Medals > Fantasy coins” by default. And we can reconsider case-by-case when some evidences pop up.
I think this is the best, most accurate and most fair compromise. I think it would reduce the workload too.
In my opinion, this is the best solution. Delete the category “ECU & Pre 1999 Euro” since, in reality, it is not a category, but a monetary unit.
In this way, each “ECU or Pre 1999 Euro” coin is simply assigned to its corresponding monetary unit (ECU & Pre 1999 Euro) and placed in its corresponding category.
In the case of Spain, there are some "ECU & Pre 1999 Euro" coins that could be classified as official ("Collector coins"), which are those issued by the “FNMT Real Casa de la Moneda”. The rest, in my opinion, should go to the “Medals > Fantasy coins” category.
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