By Numista definition both should be type Standard circulation coins - Coins intended for circulation.
Doesn't that tell us that the “Numista definition” is wrong? We can't list something as circulating if it didn't circulate. Intention is irrelevant here, only the facts matter.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
By Numista definition both should be type Standard circulation coins - Coins intended for circulation.
Doesn't that tell us that the “Numista definition” is wrong? We can't list something as circulating if it didn't circulate. Intention is irrelevant here, only the facts matter.
In that case then you have a bigger problem as they don’t fit the definition of any other coin type.
Non-circulating coins - Coins issued by a government with collection or investment purpose, including non-circulating legal tender coins (NCLT). They were not intended for circulation. The coins are denominated in a currency which has some circulating coins or banknotes.
They really don't fit either of the underlined requirements.
Non-circulating coins - Coins issued by a government with collection or investment purpose, including non-circulating legal tender coins (NCLT). They were not intended for circulation. The coins are denominated in a currency which has some circulating coins or banknotes.
They really don't fit either of the underlined requirements.
Thanks for the explanation. It's clear that thie guideline is the problem, since it doesn't cover all non-circulating coins. If we fix that, the problem disappears.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
The problem using the word “issued” is that it can also cover pieces sold to collectors at a premium. Don't get me wrong, I've been asking for a banknote category like this for years but we need to get the definition right to avoid clear errors, such as with the Argentinian pieces. Since there's only one catalogue, I guess we just need one definition. How about this:
Non-circulating coin or banknote
A coin or banknote (as defined above) which was not released into circulation as money.
As long as we have a sensible definiton of coin and banknote (which I think we did in the past), that should do.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Or, so as to not alienate those who rewrote the definitions recently,:
Non-circulating coins - Coins issued by a government with collection or investment purpose, including non-circulating legal tender coins (NCLT). They were not intended for circulation. The coins are denominated in a currency which has some circulating coins or banknotes. Also included as Non-circulating coins are those originally intended as Standard circulation coins but were never issued into circulation.
Either of these last two options seems good to me. What is clear is that, as the classification and description of each category is now, these coins are out of any option, so something must be done.
Coin referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea, Marshall Islands, Moldova, Liberia and Spain
Banknote referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea and Spain
Or, so as to not alienate those who rewrote the definitions recently,:
Non-circulating coins - Coins issued by a government with collection or investment purpose, including non-circulating legal tender coins (NCLT). They were not intended for circulation. The coins are denominated in a currency which has some circulating coins or banknotes. Also included as Non-circulating coins are those originally intended as Standard circulation coins but were never issued into circulation.
You'll have to forgive me if I am critical of those who wrote the current definitions without any consultation. If we start from your text, can I suggest the following to cover both coins and notes:
Non-circulating coins and banknotes - Coins and banknotes originally intended as standard circulation issues but which were never issued into circulation. Also, coins and notes issued by a government or bank for collection or investment purposes, including non-circulating legal tender (NCLT). The coins or notes are denominated in a currency which has some circulating coins or banknotes.
I think it's better to start with the non-commemorative, non-bullion pieces as there are many notes which fall into this category that have up to now been classified as "standard". I am a little worried about the last sentance, as there may be pieces produced for a currency that never saw the light of day. If so, I think we can cut that, as they would be covered by the first sentance, we'd just need an “unissued currency” for them.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
I think it's better to keep coin object type and banknotes object type separate rather than the same words under both Coins and Banknotes but I agree with the concept. The suggestion needs to move to the Numista website forum to get any attention rather than here for just one coin change.
Yes, we'll need to give this more prominence. Regarding combining coins and notes, I did that for a couple of reasons. First, because that appears to be how the database has now been set up. Second, because it seems to me that the same principles apply. However, if coins and notes are to remain separate then of course we can tweak the definitions for each type.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Actually, we're proposing a simpler definition to cover all non-circulating coins. Yes, further sections can be added to catch more sub-types but making the description simple and all-encompassing will save time. What is it about the definition “A coin or banknote (as defined above) which was not released into circulation as money.” that you think won't work?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
