Why is the same coin on numista twice

N#189547
 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces122471.html

Maybe I'm blind but I don't see a difference. Also, I'm pretty sure I have seen something similar before for another Saxony king, are these different at all???

Well, the weight is considerably different but one may be in error. Maybe @tokul can look into this.

vztvk

N#189547
 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces122471.html

Maybe I'm blind but I don't see a difference. Also, I'm pretty sure I have seen something similar before for another Saxony king, are these different at all???

There are multiple duplicates in Commonwealth and Saxony cause countries shared their rulers. Somebody decided to put Frederic August I and II coins in Commonwealth directory cause coins have commonwealth coat of arms/polish king title and it makes their map bigger. Commonwealth was falling apart and lost stable currency minting capabilities. People do not want to accept it.

I am still waiting for set of Frederic August I dupes to be removed.

N#186018

Commonwealth entry for ⅔ thaler has a weight of ½ thaler. It is size difference.

Saxony released commemorative 1/12 thaler (3.56 gram), ⅔ thaler and golden ducat with same layout. Coins do not have nominal value printed on them. You won't see difference between coins, if you make them black and white and scale photos to same size.

If 13.6g gram variant exists, they probably released commemorative ½ thaler too. Other commemoratives were released in multiple nominations. Either weight is not correct or title is not correct.

HRE Charles VI got duplicate for 1/12 thaler about same event.

N#97888

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces189537.html

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces258653.html

Three pages about same coin.

tokul

vztvk

N#189547
 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces122471.html

Maybe I'm blind but I don't see a difference. Also, I'm pretty sure I have seen something similar before for another Saxony king, are these different at all???

There are multiple duplicates in Commonwealth and Saxony cause countries shared their rulers. Somebody decided to put Frederic August I and II coins in Commonwealth directory cause coins have commonwealth coat of arms/polish king title and it makes their map bigger. Commonwealth was falling apart and lost stable currency minting capabilities. People do not want to accept it.

 

I am still waiting for set of Frederic August I dupes to be removed.

 

N#186018

Commonwealth entry for ⅔ thaler has a weight of ½ thaler. It is size difference.

 

Saxony released commemorative 1/12 thaler (3.56 gram), ⅔ thaler and golden ducat with same layout. Coins do not have nominal value printed on them. You won't see difference between coins, if you make them black and white and scale photos to same size.

 

If 13.6g gram variant exists, they probably released commemorative ½ thaler too. Other commemoratives were released in multiple nominations. Either weight is not correct or title is not correct.

 

HRE Charles VI got duplicate for 1/12 thaler about same event.

N#97888

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces189537.html

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces258653.html

Three pages about same coin.

 

Oh wow I didn't even know the duping problem was that bad

vztvk

Oh wow I didn't even know the duping problem was that bad

Bourbons/Habsburgs. It is not like dude married some fourteen year old relative without telling his other wife about it. :)

The duplicate has been removed.

It seems the correct weight is around 13.65 grams, and that the KM listing gives an incorrect weight.

Many other obvious duplicates have been removed thanks to tokul's suggestions.

It is possible that German authors or Krauze had access to Dresden or Berlin museum collections and weighted those coins/medals. Kopicki might have found variant that is not listed in Krauze. Maybe in Krakow or Warsaw museum. If you change weight to 13.65, you would also have to change title as ⅔ thaler is at 19.2 grams and ½ thaler is at 13.6 grams.

Atm I do not want to spend other 50 euros on Helmut Kahnt book to see all 304 pages of it. He gives Dresden museum inventory ids and weights for some other coins listed in his book.

Frederick struck a number of these “medallic” issues commemorating deaths and marriages at 13.7 grams.

N#184008

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=11137744

N#189189

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8542982

N#189572

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7227666

I don't know why they are called ⅔ Thaler, but they are (maybe because they were not meant to circulate?).

All the evidence I see says that Krause got the weight wrong on some of them.  

tdziemia

I don't know why they are called ⅔ Thaler, but they are (maybe because they were not meant to circulate?).

 

We are not talking about metric or decimal systems here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventionsthaler

19.2 grams is ⅔ thaler. Fraction looks odd, cause it is not multiple of thaler. It is multiple of Cologne mark

13.6 grams is ½ thaler.

If you have source which tells that stuff weights 13.6 fine by me. I don't want to spend 2-4k for coin just to weight it. Or pay less and then get 3.2 gram variant cause seller can't be bothered to tell weight of “Italian jeton”. If sources show up with 19 gram weights, it can be fixed in future.

tdziemia

Frederick struck a number of these “medallic” issues commemorating deaths and marriages at 13.7 grams.

N#184008

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=11137744

 

N#189189

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=8542982

 

N#189572

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7227666

 

I don't know why they are called ⅔ Thaler, but they are (maybe because they were not meant to circulate?).

 

All the evidence I see says that Krause got the weight wrong on some of them.  

The smaller denominations did circulate, my main collection of coins is German Death Commems/Marriage coins. The weights on these are pretty inaccurate I just think It's weird how the same coin is posted as being under  Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth when it doesn't need to be there.  Like this is the original -→ N#97888 and this is the duplicate --→ https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces258653.html and its for even more coins, I just don't get it. It even says drezno mint which is just dresden mint. Another example : N#188970 and then the duplicate https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces97105.html 

Possibly the creator of the duplicates was following the Kopicki catalog.  

And it is not the only Polish catalog that covers all these coins.  Gumowski, “Handbuch der Polnischen Numismatik” (1960) also lists them.

Those two coins will also be consolidated.  Thanks for pointing it out.    

tdziemia

Possibly the creator of the duplicates was following the Kopicki catalog.  

And it is not the only Polish catalog that covers all these coins.  Gumowski, “Handbuch der Polnischen Numismatik” (1960) also lists them.

 

Those two coins will also be consolidated.  Thanks for pointing it out.    

There is way more than that, should I maybe make a list of them and send them to you?

I think tokul also has a list.  

It's best to post them on the Forum, in a new thread.