Duplicate - Denier - Kestutis ND (1377-1382) [solved]

N#402437 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces401959.html

N#136001

Second coin (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces401959.html) can be removed. If you have any owners on that page, reassign them to third one (N#136001). Page was setup based on limited information provided by http://www.limit.lt online collection and attribution to Kestutis by Sajauskas book from 1993. Later visit to museum showed that they got ПЕЧАТЬ coin variant and 2022-2024 sources attribute ПЕЧАТЬ and spear/cross coin variants to Kestutis.

Sajauskas attributes columns of gediminas and spear/cross to Kestutis. Later sources attribute it to Vytautas.

There is regular modification request for moving first page to Kestutis. If possible, I would prefer not to have my login id or name displayed in image copyright. CC BY-NC-SA license. Numista is free to put own copyright with same license, if you can clean image better than me. If you need full name, numista admins probably can see email address used in account registration. It got full name and google, but not facebook can tell who I am.

You don't have to use your Numista pseudonym if you don't want to, you can change it to something else. 

Idolenz

You don't have to use your Numista pseudonym if you don't want to, you can change it to something else. 

My point is that I would like to avoid having name displayed on it as it is not my regular activity and I tend to use different license on stuff that I create. You probably do not want copyrights assigned to The Dude or other fake name.

Unfortunately the image is very blurred, probably because of the conditions you had to photograph it in a museum, etc.

Maybe we use a drawing based on Cesnelius?  I can give it a try.

(and, 2d listing has been removed).

tdziemia

Unfortunately the image is very blurred, probably because of the conditions you had to photograph it in a museum, etc.

 

Maybe we use a drawing based on Cesnelius?  I can give it a try.

(and, 2d listing has been removed).

If image is bad, discard it. I am not good at photography, but at least now I know what kind of coin museum has. Over time I will probably create hand drawn images myself to have something instead of “no image” with no restrictive copyrights attached. Hulevski book got plenty hand drawn examples on almost every page to give some ideas on how to represent those coins.

Edit: https://wcn.pl/archive/359468 is same type. If you can call inconsistent stamping “the same”. They got less dull obverse than Bank's Money Museum.

I did find this listing from a WCN auction:  https://wcn.pl/archive/359468

Mass seems to low for it to be the correct type, but design elements are similar.  Let me know what you think.  

Either way, a search in WCN archive on “Litwa pieniądz” seems to give several types we are missing.

tdziemia

I did find this listing from a WCN auction:  https://wcn.pl/archive/359468

 

Mass seems to low for it to be the correct type, but design elements are similar.  Let me know what you think.  

 

Either way, a search in WCN archive on “Litwa pieniądz” seems to give several types we are missing.

  

Huletski page 124 got examples as low as 0.65 gram. Same coin. Good enough to represent it. People were only learning to make coins in those times. Some were learning up until 1705. Maybe change name to Denar instead of 5 Denars.

Source from 2024 does not have lower fineness entries that could represent N#402442 from Sajauskas book. Maybe I will review it later.

Numista is missing lion coat of arms (quadruped beast according to Huletski) used by Algirdas, when he cut some neighbors :) from getting into disintegrating Kievan Rus and minted coins with his Slavic name and Ruthenian lion. From my perspective I don't want to claim that lion coat of arms does not belong to some country or town that Huletski refused to call by its name. They had enough people trying to erase them from history recently.

tokul

 

Huletski page 124 got examples as low as 0.65 gram. Same coin. Good enough to represent it. People were only learning to make coins in those times. Some were learning up until 1705. Maybe change name to Denar instead of 5 Denars.

 

Source from 2024 does not have lower fineness entries that could represent N#402442 from Sajauskas book. Maybe I will review it later.

 

Numista is missing lion coat of arms (quadruped beast according to Huletski) used by Algirdas, when he cut some neighbors :) from getting into disintegrating Kievan Rus and minted coins with his Slavic name and Ruthenian lion. From my perspective I don't want to claim that lion coat of arms does not belong to some country or town that Huletski refused to call by its name. They had enough people trying to erase them from history recently.

I think this coin is some multiple of denar (even if WCN just calls it a denar), so I will put the title back to 5 denars and add a comment.

The Polish denar is only 0.3 gr. of low grade (< 0.500) silver from 1360s.

These coins struck in Lviv 1370s/1380s at about the same time (as 8 denier) contain nearly 1 gr. fine silver:

N#179611

N#179482

…decreasing to about 0.84 gr. under Ladislas Jagiello  N#179482

So perhaps 5 denars is correct, with many of the coins clipped or made on light planchets?

For the coin with the Ruthenian lion, a nice example here:  https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7794419 (although again the Polish auction houses attribute it differently, to Vytautas).