Province of Minas Gerais and State of Grão-Pará and Maranhão [solved]

These two Brazilian subdivisions had their own coins specifically minted for them, shouldn't a new issuer be added for these specifically? 

I am brazilian, but I dont know enough about this historical information about brazilian coinage.

More information from Krauze catalog about it:

Para:

Piratini

Maranhão 

Ceara

Minas Gerais

Cuiabá 

Mato Grosso 

I think that some brazilian friends can help with more information 😀

About the first item that Turi presented:

"The Cabanagem was a popular revolt that took place in the then Province of Grão-Pará, between 1835 and 1840, during Brazil's regency period. The movement was triggered by deep social, racial, and economic inequalities, as well as dissatisfaction with the Portuguese colonial administration and local elites. The rebels, known as "cabanos" (often inhabitants of rustic huts, hence the name), were mostly composed of indigenous people, mestizos, and freed slaves, who sought better living conditions and greater political representation.

The issuance of coins during the Cabanagem is a unique episode in the history of revolts in Brazil. While the cabanos controlled the city of Belém, the capital of Grão-Pará, there was a need to organize the local economy, as the movement had to sustain itself and create an administrative structure to legitimize its government. Thus, one of the measures taken was the issuance of their own coins.

History of the Issuance of Cabanagem Coins

Context of Issuance: After taking Belém in 1835, the cabanos faced the challenge of administering the city and the province. Among various needs, the economy required special attention, as the movement depended on resources to sustain itself and fund its activities.

Provisional Coins: During the occupation, the cabanos issued provisional coins, a common practice in times of crisis and civil wars. These coins were minted using available metals, often melting valuable objects such as household utensils and decorative pieces.

Characteristics of the Coins: The coins issued by the cabanos were simple and often rudimentary, reflecting the urgency and limited resources. There are not many detailed records about the exact specifications of these coins, such as diameter, weight, or material, but it is known that they did not follow the standards of the official coins of the Brazilian Empire.

Purpose and Circulation: The main purpose of the coins was to facilitate transactions within the territory controlled by the cabanos, especially in Belém and its surroundings. They were accepted locally and helped to minimally stabilize the economy during the period the revolt maintained control over the region.

Decline and Consequences: The Cabanagem was severely repressed by the imperial government, culminating in a massacre that decimated a large part of the local population. With the reconquest of Belém by imperial forces in 1836, the cabano coins were withdrawn from circulation. The issuance of these coins remains a symbol of the cabanos' attempt to establish an autonomous and just administration, albeit short-lived.

Conclusion

The issuance of coins during the Cabanagem stands as a testament to the organization and resilience of the rebels in the face of adversity. Despite their brief existence, these coins represent a significant chapter in Brazil's popular struggles, where the quest for autonomy and social justice led to one of the most violent and important popular movements of the regency period."

This was a text generated by chatgpt that I reviewed, and now I compliment with information from Bentes 2022 Catalog, page 595:

This revolt took place at Para, during this period two groups of coins were minted:
- Malcher coins: authorized by Bando of 14/01/1835 that authorizes counterstamping the 80 and 40 réis coins with a C or G (Cuiabá  or Goiás) mintmark with 20 and 10 réis value, though reducing the value to the fourth of its value.
- Vinagre coins: authorized by Bando of 06/03/1835  that authorizes counterstamping the LXXX, XL and XX coins coins with 40, 20 and 10 réis value, though reducing the value to half of its value.

Hmm so its not just minas gerais and grão-pará and maranhão that need pages. The whole brazilian catalog needs to be updated. 

Good morning all. I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense. All of these coinages were legally authorized by the kingdom or  the empire. Here in Brazil all these coins are considered to be Brazilian coins and not just local ones, although in fact some of them were for local minting, it makes no sense to separate minting houses as new issuers of coins... As a referee of the Brazilian catalog, I don't believe this division is correct.

I think that you didn't even read what I wrote. There are different situations to be addressed and you just made a short and general consideration. Revolutions are not authorized by the central government, so I'm sure that Cabanagem's coins should be considered as part of a new issuer.

Notgelder are german coins and you split it… swiss cantons changes a little and they are considered new issuers (Geneve as city, bishoproic and canton, for example), so far and so on.

Makes no sense the absurd differences of concepts when we are talking about european issuers and other places issuers.

For example, Santa Marta is a issuer in Colombia, Oaxaca is a issuer in Mexico and many others.

Here our guidelines refarding issuers creation  https://en.numista.com/help/add-or-modify-an-issuer-in-the-catalogue-191.html

At first glance it seems we need indeed to create a section “brazilian states” to gather local sub issuers of Brazil.

After discussion with the referees, the state sub-issuers have been set up for the countermarked/counterstamped coins: a few copper types for Ceara and Maranhao; counterstamped large “foreign” silver for Minas Gerais and Mato Grosso.  

For counterstamped coins with a Cuiaba mark, I have this question:  in the Numista framework, should these also be considered issues for the state of Mato Grosso with Cuiaba as the mint?  I realize this is not how KM handles them, but my understanding is that Cuiaba was (is) the main city of Mato Grosso state, and probably was not stamping these coins only for use in the city, but acting as a mint for the entire state.

Thoughts? 

Meanwhile, will mark this Done, and handle any other changes as they arise. 

tdziemia

After discussion with the referees, the state sub-issuers have been set up for the countermarked/counterstamped coins: a few copper types for Ceara and Maranhao; counterstamped large “foreign” silver for Minas Gerais and Mato Grosso.  

 

For counterstamped coins with a Cuiaba mark, I have this question:  in the Numista framework, should these also be considered issues for the state of Mato Grosso with Cuiaba as the mint?  I realize this is not how KM handles them, but my understanding is that Cuiaba was (is) the main city of Mato Grosso state, and probably was not stamping these coins only for use in the city, but acting as a mint for the entire state.

 

Thoughts? 

 

Meanwhile, will mark this Done, and handle any other changes as they arise. 

 

In my opinion the Cabanagem coins should be considered as well.. We had a rebellion and they counterstamped coins.

Cuiabá and Mato Grosso should be together, as the change of the stamp was just a political issue and not a territorial restriction of the issued coins. (pp 502 8th Edition of Bente Catalog, Moedas Brasileiras - Livro Oficial - Bicentenário da Independência - 8ª edição)