Modify currency: Subdivisions of Libra, from Principality of Catalonia [solved]

Here https://en.numista.com/forum/topic144562.html#p1151182 was added denominations of Groat with different values.

Now these values must be added to the subdivisions.

Currency code: 3059 • catalonia_principality

Now we have:

1 Libra = 1 Pacifico = 20 Sous • 1 Florin = 15 Sous • 1 Sou = 2 Seisenos = 6 Doblers = 6 Ardites = 12 Dineros • 1 Dinero = 2 Mallas = 2 Obols = 2 Senyals = 4 Pugesas • 1 Groat = 18 Dineros • 1 Principado = 24 Sous • 1 Trentin = 33 Groats

This should be added:

1 Groat = 12 Dineros (1285-1406) = 18 Dineros (1407-1424; 1454-1500) = 15 Dineros (1425-1453) = 24 Dineros (1501-1669) = 36 Dineros (from 1670)

And this should be removed:

1 Groat = 18 Dineros

New subdivisions (in English and other languages with their translation filled):

1 Libra = 1 Pacifico = 20 Sous • 1 Florin = 15 Sous • 1 Groat = 12 Dineros (1285-1406) = 18 Dineros (1407-1424; 1454-1500) = 15 Dineros (1425-1453) = 24 Dineros (1501-1669) = 36 Dineros (from 1670) • 1 Sou = 2 Seisenos = 6 Doblers = 6 Ardites = 12 Dineros • 1 Dinero = 2 Mallas = 2 Obols = 2 Senyals = 4 Pugesas • 1 Principado = 24 Sous • 1 Trentin = 33 Groats

An alterntive proposal:  “1 Groat = 12 - 36 dineros.”

I understand this is less specific, but we have done this in some other places, and it keeps the list of equvalents more compact (as it is already rather long). 

tdziemia

An alterntive proposal:  “1 Groat = 12 - 36 dineros.”

But then we can not know the value to use if a new coin is added… And the purpose of this line (to give information about the values) will be lost.

Can be:

1 Groat = 12 (1285-1406) / 18 (1407-1424; 1454-1500) / 15 (1425-1453) / 24 (1501-1669) / 36 (from 1670) Dineros

but the other (longer) form reads better.

tdziemia

I understand this is less specific, but we have done this in some other places, and it keeps the list of equvalents more compact (as it is already rather long). 

I know the length is big, but… you do not worry: it will be more long yet 😈 (this currency has other denominations variable in time pending to fix).

Other option:

1 Groat = 12-36 Dineros (12 in 1285-1406; 18 in 1407-1424, 1454-1500; 15 in 1425-1453; 24 in 1501-1669; 36 from 1670)

davidhs

tdziemia

An alterntive proposal:  “1 Groat = 12 - 36 dineros.”

But then we can not know the value to use if a new coin is added… And the purpose of this line (to give information about the values) will be lost.

 

Can be:

1 Groat = 12 (1285-1406) / 18 (1407-1424; 1454-1500) / 15 (1425-1453) / 24 (1501-1669) / 36 (from 1670) Dineros

but the other (longer) form reads better.

 

tdziemia

I understand this is less specific, but we have done this in some other places, and it keeps the list of equvalents more compact (as it is already rather long). 

I know the length is big, but… you do not worry: it will be more long yet 😈 (this currency has other denominations variable in time pending to fix).

Looking at the number of types already entered, I don' think there will be many (if any) more added, and anyhow the referee would be able to make sure they are assigned to the correct face value.

From my viewpoint it is just a question of how long (readable) we want to the list of equivalents to be.  It is aready rather long here compared to many other places.

But  if users want the more detailed verion, it's not a problem to do it.

I tried another suggestion (see below) in the Spanish side (I can edit the Spanish translation) but I found a limitation in the length of the text displayed. The field allow “any” length (or many more characters than now, I do not know exactly how many), but the page only show the first 255.

In English now we have 237 characters, and these are 242:
 

1 Libra = 1 Pacifico = 20 Sous • 1 Groat = 12 - 36 Dineros • 1 Florin = 15 Sous • 1 Sou = 2 Seisenos = 6 Doblers = 6 Ardites = 12 Dineros • 1 Dinero = 2 Mallas = 2 Obols = 2 Senyals = 4 Pugesas • 1 Principado = 24 Sous • 1 Trentin = 33 Groats

So... you do your proposal now, but we will have problems when more subdivisions are added, because this currency has many subdivisions.

My suggestion was add:

1 Groat = 12 - 36 Dineros (+)

where “+” is a link that displays all values:

1 Groat = 12 - 36 Dineros (+ 12 in 1285-1406; 18 in 1407-1424, 1454-1500; 15 in 1425-1453; 24 in 1501-1669; 36 from 1670)

But now it is not possible, because the limit of characters.☹️

davidhs

My suggestion was add:

1 Groat = 12 - 36 Dineros (+)

where “+” is a link that displays all values:

1 Groat = 12 - 36 Dineros (+ 12 in 1285-1406; 18 in 1407-1424, 1454-1500; 15 in 1425-1453; 24 in 1501-1669; 36 from 1670)

But now it is not possible, because the limit of characters.☹️

I published this suggestion here: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic145726.html

We are missing some opportunities to simplify (and save characters).  

If I take the starting point and show redundant information:  

1 Libra = 1 Pacifico = 20 Sous • 1 Florin = 15 Sous • 1 Sou = 2 40 Seisenos = 6 120 Doblers/ = 6 Ardites = 12 240 Dineros • 1 Dinero = 2 480 Mallas/ = 2 Obols/ = 2 Senyals = 4 960 Pugesas • 1 Groat = 18 Dineros • 1 Principado = 24 Sous • 1 Trentin = 33 Groats.  

Rearranging:  

1 Libra = 1 Pacifico = 20 Sous = 40 Seisenos = 120 Doblers/Ardites = 240 Dineros = 480 Mallas/Obols/Senyals = 960 Pugesas • 1 Florin = 15 Sous • 1 Groat = 18 Dineros • 1 Principado = 24 Sous • 1 Trentin = 33 Groats. 

I didn't count (becasue I suck at such detailed things), but I think we save about 15 characters? 

Which easily allows us to add a range for the groat:

1 Libra = 1 Pacifico = 20 Sous = 40 Seisenos = 120 Doblers/Ardites = 240 Dineros = 480 Mallas/Obols/Senyals = 960 Pugesas • 1 Florin = 15 Sous • 1 Groat = 18 - 36 Dineros • 1 Principado = 24 Sous • 1 Trentin = 33 Groats. 

… and maybe more?

I agree to join these lines because are exact values:

1 Sou = 2 Seisenos = 6 Doblers = 6 Ardites = 12 Dineros • 1 Dinero = 2 Mallas = 2 Obols = 2 Senyals = 4 Pugesas

→ https://es.numista.com/forum/topic145005.html 

1 Sou = 2 Seisenos = 6 Doblers = 6 Ardites = 12 Dineros = 24 Obols "Mallas" = 24 Senyals = 48 Pugesas

or (I think less readable)

1 Sou = 2 Seisenos = 6 Doblers/Ardites = 12 Dineros = 24 Obols "Mallas" / Senyals = 48 Pugesas

But 1 Florin = 15 Sous is an average value, not exact. Actually we should write:

1 Florin = 15 Sous (average)

But we do not earn that much… And some of the other relationships are incorrect and need to be corrected according to https://es.numista.com/forum/topic145005.html.

In my opinion this is part of another larger discussion: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic144651.html#p1158009

I feel like I have opened a Pandora's box.👾

OK, the equivalents have been updated to include 18 - 36 dineros range for the groat/croat, and to reflect 1 florin = 15 sous (average), along with consolidation of the main units.

So this request will be closed.  If anyone sees mistakes, post it here and it will be corrected.

I am sorry, @tdziemia , I had other typo: the range for the Groat is 12 - 36 Dineros (not 18 - 36).

Thank you.  My error now corrected.