Trial Patterns, especially those whose design never went to legal tender coins, are (were) commonly made with multiple different compositions using the same dies. Should the “composition rule” also apply to them as it does to legal tender coins?
I remain of the same opinion as before. if one pattern is aluminum and one pattern is silver, sure splitting is fine i have no objection and have done this in the past. in this particular case, i think it makes more sense to keep these together as they are. If someone above me wants to overrule me thats fine but personally i'd leave as is
I remain of the same opinion as before. if one pattern is aluminum and one pattern is silver, sure splitting is fine i have no objection and have done this in the past. in this particular case, i think it makes more sense to keep these together as they are. If someone above me wants to overrule me thats fine but personally i'd leave as is
These coins all come from the same die and so i do not believe the intention with them was necessarily to change the composition in such a way as to fundamentally alter the coin. Again if you have a pattern and one is copper one is silver and one is aluminum, the intent is to try different versions and you have fundamentally altered the coin. in this case, i dont really think it is the same and inclusion of a plug or not a plug is, in my opinion, not grounds for breaking this coin up.
These coins all come from the same die and so i do not believe the intention with them was necessarily to change the composition in such a way as to fundamentally alter the coin. Again if you have a pattern and one is copper one is silver and one is aluminum, the intent is to try different versions and you have fundamentally altered the coin. in this case, i dont really think it is the same and inclusion of a plug or not a plug is, in my opinion, not grounds for breaking this coin up.
As weight and composition change depending on version, we have no othet choice than to split if we dont want to display false information
If the decision to split pages of pattern coins where different compositions were tried using the same dies then the following will have to be split also:
I still maintain that because of the nature of pattern coins where tests on different alloys with the same dies are/were commonplace that the guidelines on composition should be different from those for production strikes.
Is it that you fear we have too many Numista pages?
How do you suggest we handle composition and weight fields with your approach? Not mentionning pictures…
When I see how many pages we create for very similar coins or notes, for very minor differences but just because Krause or Pick or [name your favorite specialized catalogue] have different numbers for them, I completely fail to understand why the very composition wouldnt qualify for a split
Yes but I fail to see any good reason to let 2 very different items mixed.
How a slight die change is so obviously a criterion to split but something so obvious as Composition and weight is not?
I would have put the 1879 aluminum on the same page as the 1880 one.
To me it makes more sense to group the patterns by design intent (the alloys used were secondary; the goal was to decide on a new coin). If you do split all those pages they should reference each other.
I would have put the 1879 aluminum on the same page as the 1880 one.
Agreed
To me it makes more sense to group the patterns by design intent (the alloys used were secondary; the goal was to decide on a new coin). If you do split all those pages they should reference each other.
Do not split as it was only an EXPERIMENTAL PATTERN coin. Mission creep has begun on this thread. Back to the original question. Maybe this will help settle it.
As mentioned previously, same dies and same diameter. The question was about composition. Copper was expensive and the U.S was having difficulty securing enough to meet the demand, thus the bimetallic SUGGESTION which was considered and rejected by Congress. Ultimately, through the coinage act of Jan. 14 1793, they decided to reduce the diameter of the copper cent and ½ cent by specific weight specifications as this very large Pattern coin was deemed impractical to produce and far too large for every day commerce relative to it's value.
Edit: In summation. 12 or 13 of this entire pattern type produced are known to exist including no plug, silver plug, and billon plug which were distinct but not yet specified as to purity. Even suggestions of other metals such as lead as a consideration. Suggestions and experimentation. Do we make a page for each coin?
Status changed to Rejected(Compendium, 15 Dec 2024, 15:52)
