Create new country Silesia or move from Bohemia.

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This message aims at: requesting the creation or the modification of an issuer in the catalogue

Status: Rejected
Upvotes: 6
Downvotes: 2

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Hi

Silesia coins are right now under Bohemia.

Bohemia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia is the westernmost and largest historical region of the Czech Republic. Bohemia can also refer to a wider area consisting of the historical Lands of the Bohemian Crown ruled by the Bohemian kings, including Moravia and Czech Silesia,[3] in which case the smaller region is referred to as Bohemia proper as a means of distinction.[4]

The Lands of the Bohemian Crown were the states in Central Europe during the medieval and early modern periods with feudal obligations to the Bohemian kings. The crown lands primarily consisted of the Kingdom of Bohemia, an electorate of the Holy Roman Empire according to the Golden Bull of 1356, the Margraviate of Moravia, the Duchies of Silesia, and the two Lusatias, known as the Margraviate of Upper Lusatia and the Margraviate of Lower Lusatia, as well as other territories throughout its history. This agglomeration of states nominally under the rule of the Bohemian kings was referred to simply as Bohemia.

 

The Duchies of Silesia were the more than twenty divisions of the region of Silesia formed between the 12th and 14th centuries by the breakup of the Duchy of Silesia, then part of the Kingdom of Poland. In 1335, the duchies were ceded to the Kingdom of Bohemia under the Treaty of Trentschin. Thereafter until 1742, Silesia was one of the Bohemian crown lands and lay within the Holy Roman Empire. Most of Silesia was annexed by the King of Prussia under the Treaty of Berlin in 1742. 

Only the Duchy of Teschen, the Duchy of Troppau and the Duchy of Nysa remained under the control of the Bohemian crown and as such were known as the Duchy of Upper and Lower Silesia until 1918.

 

Under the Bohemian crown, the duchies continued to be ruled by branches of the Piast dynasty known as the Silesian Piasts until their last lineage died out in 1675. When a ducal lineage died out, the duchy passed to the crown and became a state country.

 

The Silesian Piasts were the elder of four lines of the Polish Piast dynasty beginning with Władysław II the Exile (1105–1159), eldest son of Duke Bolesław III of Poland. By Bolesław's testament, Władysław was granted Silesia as his hereditary province and also the Lesser Polish Seniorate Province at Kraków according to the principle of agnatic seniority.

 

Assuming :

Under Bohemia you will find coins from polish silesia german silesia and of course czech silesia

 

The Duchy of Silesia (Polish: Księstwo śląskie, German: Herzogtum Schlesien, Czech: Slezské knížectví) with its capital at Wrocław was a medieval duchy located in the historic Silesian region of Poland. Soon after it was formed under the Piast dynasty in 1138, it fragmented into various Silesian duchies. In 1327, the remaining Duchy of Wrocław as well as most other duchies ruled by the Silesian Piasts passed to the Kingdom of Bohemia as Duchies of Silesia. The acquisition was completed when King Casimir III the Great of Poland renounced his rights to Silesia in the 1335 Treaty of Trentschin.

 

After the inheritance of Bohemia by the House of Habsburg in 1526, the Silesian duchies gradually passed under control of the Austrian Habsburg monarchy until King Frederick II of Prussia invaded Silesia in 1740 and annexed most of it during the First Silesian War. The bulk of the duchy, enlarged by the County of Kladsko and Upper Lusatian territories annexed from Saxony, was subsequently reorganized as part of the Prussian Province of Silesia, while the duchies remaining under Austrian control were reconstituted as the Duchy of Upper and Lower Silesia in 1742. The duchies which had remained in Poland were subsequently annexed by the Kingdom of Prussia (New Silesia) and the Habsburg monarchy (Galicia) during the 18th century Partitions of Poland. The Duchy of Upper and Lower Silesia lasted as a crown land of Cisleithanian Austria until 1918, whereupon it was divided between the Second Polish Republic (Autonomous Silesian Voivodeship) and Czechoslovakia (Czech Silesia) after the Polish–Czechoslovak War of 1919.

 

That is why im sure that placing Silesia under Bohemia is wrong and should be placed somewhere else - The best option in my opinion is new country.

Silesia ruled by Poland 1138 - 1327

Silesia ruled by Kingdom of Bohemian 1335- 1526

Silesia under austrian habsburg - 1526 - 1740 or 1919?

Silesia under Prussia 1740 - 1919 ?

Former numista referee for Poland and half of african countries.
I invite you to my FB group about commemorative coins : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1635288620035921

It is kind of a hot topic now, but I only want to highlight some technical stuff here now.

 

We do not need to create a new country - issuer of Silesia exists and we can move it somewhere if needed. We can also make it visible in more places at once. I fully agree that what was minted before Bohemia acquired Silesia should be under Poland. 

 

So what could we do, is that we could show Silesia in both places at once, and under Poland show only issuers that made coins during Polish rule and under Bohemia only those which made coins during Bohemian rule. If they made coins during both rules, they can again be shown in both places.

Catalogue administrator

Jarcek

It is kind of a hot topic now, but I only want to highlight some technical stuff here now.

 

We do not need to create a new country - issuer of Silesia exists and we can move it somewhere if needed. We can also make it visible in more places at once. I fully agree that what was minted before Bohemia acquired Silesia should be under Poland. 

 

So what could we do, is that we could show Silesia in both places at once, and under Poland show only issuers that made coins during Polish rule and under Bohemia only those which made coins during Bohemian rule. If they made coins during both rules, they can again be shown in both places.

Placing Silesia in both places at once its a good idea.  But  i think case with Silesia is the same case as Livonia, Courland , Wallachia. 

Former numista referee for Poland and half of african countries.
I invite you to my FB group about commemorative coins : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1635288620035921

I am not sure, are those entities that were issuing coins under one entity and then moved under another entity and continued to issue coins like that?

Catalogue administrator

Jarcek

I am not sure, are those entities that were issuing coins under one entity and then moved under another entity and continued to issue coins like that?

I think that Livonia is excellent example and is the solution for Silesia.

Former numista referee for Poland and half of african countries.
I invite you to my FB group about commemorative coins : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1635288620035921

Just a reminder as nothing is happening in this topic :

The history of Silesia is extremely rich and complex, covering many eras and different powers. Over the centuries, this region has witnessed border changes, political unions and cultural changes. Here is a historical overview of Silesia based on the given dates:

 1. **875-905**: During the Great Moravian Reich, Silesia was under the influence of this state, which was one of the first organized Slavic groups in Central Europe. 

2. **905-920/940**: A multi-tribal state of Silesian tribes was established, which indicates local organization and political independence. 

3. **920/940-990**: Incorporated into the Duchy of Bohemia, showing growing Czech influence in the region.

 4. **990-999**: The period in which Silesia was part of both the State of Gniezno and the Duchy of Bohemia, which indicates complex political relations. 

5. **999-1032**: Incorporation into the Gniezno State, which proves the strengthening of Polish influence in the region. 

6. **1032-1037**: Re-division of influence between the Kingdom of Poland and the Duchy of Bohemia. 

7. **1037-1050**: Period of affiliation to the Duchy of Bohemia.

 8. **1050-1194**: A long period in which Silesia is divided between Poland and the Czech Republic. 

9. **1194-1344**: Independent Duchies of Silesia, which indicates a period of greater political independence of the region.

 10. **1344-1474**: Union of the Duchy of Silesia with the Kingdom of Bohemia, which proves the increase of Czech influence. 

11. **1474-1490**: Union with the Kingdom of Hungary, showing the changing political arrangements in the region. 

12. **1491-1492**: Short period of independence of the Duchy of Silesia.

 13. **1492-1497**: Brief and unrecognized union with Poland. 

14. **1497-1627**: Long union with the Kingdom of Bohemia.

 15. **1627-1742**: Dependence on Austria, which indicates the growing influence of the Habsburgs.

 16. **1742-1815**: A period of complex affiliation with Austria and Prussia, reflecting the rivalry between these two powers.

 17. **1815-1918/19**: The times of Prussia and Austria (later Austria-Hungary), which shows the influence of these countries on the region. 18. **1918-1920/22**: The period after World War I, with clear divisions and plebiscites. 

19. **1920/22-1939**: Partition between Germany, Czechoslovakia and Poland, which proves complicated international relations. 

20. **1939-1945**: German occupation during World War II.

 21. **1945-2021**: Partition between Poland, Germany and Czechoslovakia (later the Czech Republic), reflecting post-war border changes and population shifts.

Former numista referee for Poland and half of african countries.
I invite you to my FB group about commemorative coins : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1635288620035921

Nothing will happen in foreseeable future either. We will revisit country list placements/logic in 2024.

Catalogue administrator
Status changed to Rejected (Jarcek, 29 Dec 2023, 14:13)

i can see here logic :

 

Status: Rejected
Upvotes: 4 
Downvotes: 0

So why we do need voting options ?

………….

I have one  request to you Jarek,  before you lock all my forum threads.
i can see that you reject all my topics just because they are from me. Yes, you show me where my place is congrats. But please, stick to the facts and don't reinvent the wheel.

I add about 1600 coins to the catalog so i think i know something about coins from Poland and region of Poland.

 

Regards

Damian

Former numista referee for Poland and half of african countries.
I invite you to my FB group about commemorative coins : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1635288620035921

Jarcek

It is kind of a hot topic now, but I only want to highlight some technical stuff here now.

 

We do not need to create a new country - issuer of Silesia exists and we can move it somewhere if needed. We can also make it visible in more places at once. I fully agree that what was minted before Bohemia acquired Silesia should be under Poland. 

 

So what could we do, is that we could show Silesia in both places at once, and under Poland show only issuers that made coins during Polish rule and under Bohemia only those which made coins during Bohemian rule. If they made coins during both rules, they can again be shown in both places.

Jarcek, How much time is hot topic ?

Former numista referee for Poland and half of african countries.
I invite you to my FB group about commemorative coins : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1635288620035921

Jarcek

Nothing will happen in foreseeable future either. We will revisit country list placements/logic in 2024.

An 2024 is coming to end soon, something changed ?

Former numista referee for Poland and half of african countries.
I invite you to my FB group about commemorative coins : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1635288620035921

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