Malta 2 euro CCs (2022 + 2023) - additional coins issued into circulation [solved]

Hello,

I contacted Malta Coin Centre with a request for their coin mintages. They replied to me with the following link (warning, automatic download):

https://www.centralbankmalta.org/si...n-Production.xlsx?revcount=1058&revcount=6438

When scrolling down to the 2022 and 2023 mintages, I observed the following entries:

“Hypogeum Coins”, “Erasmus Coins”, and “United Nations coins” (12,500 each)

“Copernicus - Others” and “Napoleon - Others” (5,000 each)

I asked Malta Coin Centre what these mintages represent and received the following response:

This means the following 5 coins have additional coins issued into circulation which are not included in their current mintages:

N#346677 : 12,500 extra coins issued into circulation (which were, importantly, not sold as rolls to collectors)

N#319136 : 12,500 extra coins issued into circulation (which were, importantly, not sold as rolls to collectors)

N#346667 : 12,500 extra coins issued into circulation

N#369514 : 5,000 coins issued into circulation

N#369187 : 5,000 coins issued into circulation

Could the mintages of these coins be modified to reflect these recent developments? I cannot edit them for the mintages are ‘confirmed’.
Thank you,

Darian

Are they in circulation at face value?

If not, then that is grounds for a complaint to the European Commission.

Aidan.

BCNumismatics

Are they in circulation at face value?

 

If not, then that is grounds for a complaint to the European Commission.

 

Aidan.

Presumably so. I know for instance that Malta 2021 (Heroes of the Pandemic, which also has a limited mintage for circulation) and Malta 2022 (minus UN) have been found in circulated rolls purchased at banks by some Maltese collectors I happen to know (one [Heroes, again] was even found in Belgium a few days ago).

Why is that? 

Please contact the referee directly, he probably missed the thread :)
stancollects

Poke @stancollects 

I added those mintages now.

I am a Maltese collector living in Malta, and I can confirm what generaldarian is saying. I have found x2 Malta 2021 Heroes of the Pandemic in circulated bank rolls, whilst I know for a fact quite a few more of this coin have been found by fellow local people. Moreover, I have also found x2 Malta 2022 Hypogeum coins in circulation, this time not in rolls but in actual circulation, given as change and found in a shop hunt. Finally, I know someone who found a Malta UN women 2022 in circulation, and as recently as last week someone else found 3 of them in circulation. I have not found this coin myself, yet. It seems that the Maltese commemoratives 2020 onwards are indeed minted in very small numbers, but the bank is still releasing limited numbers of these coins into circulation, making this circulating commemorative coins, luckily for us.

Do we have some updates for 2024 issues? Do their status stands non circulating still?  A few years back I was hoping all of these new ones are merely collectors issues like Belgium's new ones. Well, at least 2023 is relatively available still for Malta.

natbaj

Do we have some updates for 2024 issues? Do their status stands non circulating still?  A few years back I was hoping all of these new ones are merely collectors issues like Belgium's new ones. Well, at least 2023 is relatively available still for Malta.

During a Central Bank event I was told by bank officials that some 2024 coins will be released into circulation 6 months after release, small amounts which I suspect will be taken from the unsold 32k coins sold in capsules only… With that said on the website they didn't list any number for circulation which still leaves some question marks. If I know local Maltese people are finding them in circulation I will change to circulating, for now it remains NIFC

Thank you @LaMaltese for the prompt answer! I would like to use the opportunity to ask about privy marks which differed some coins in circulation and in cards. The five pieces mentioned in this change request do not have privy marks, but this one does (Heroes of the Pandemic):
N#300648

Now, central bank's digital illustration shows it without privy mark. Can you please confirm circulation issues do not have privy marks? I have not been able to find the real photo online

natbaj

Thank you @LaMaltese for the prompt answer! I would like to use the opportunity to ask about privy marks which differed some coins in circulation and in cards. The five pieces mentioned in this change request do not have privy marks, but this one does (Heroes of the Pandemic):
N#300648

Now, central bank's digital illustration shows it without privy mark. Can you please confirm circulation issues do not have privy marks? I have not been able to find the real photo online

The central bank of Malta remains adamant that the one intended for general circulation is without a mintmark. However, all the pieces I have seen being found, including the x2 pieces I found myself, are infact all with the mdp mintmark, so there's big question marks there. I also haven't seen a single coin without it online. It is surely some mistake by the mint as has happened before with the Ta Hagrat ‘F’ NIFC variant… These were found mixed with unc rolls of coins (without and F) intended for circulation. It is just perplexing not a single coin with the MDP mintmark has been seen though. 

Late reply, anyway I don't think these coins should be defined circulating. They were not made to circulate among the population, they were issued in coin cards for collectors. 

If the goal was to circulate them, the number in rolls would have been much higher, not 6% of the coincard numbers. By the way the bank of Malta acted, it was clear they were not made for the general public. They didn't even get the chance to non-collectors to get them at the nominal value. The ones in rolls sound a lot like leftovers to me.

You may go with “non circulating with limited circulating quantities”, but it is not a circulating coin, not a chance.

I guess everyone would agree in this hobby there are never late replies and the new insights are always very welcome!

Fortunately or unfortunately, logical definition of a circulation coin does not allow “limited circulation” or similar constructs. It's one or another. If a coin is released to circulation (directly by bank or indirectly through collectors at face value - and it was meant primarily to be payment media, like “a 2 euro coin”) it's a circulation coin. Like for instance super rare mules or faulty designs(subtypes, varieties, whatever) found all over the world, or on the other hand pieces like Croatian 2 euros, with chance of finding one in circulation almost equals finding a piece from a set or winning a lottery.

If a coin say 2 euro is issued as a proof or exclusively in a coin card, then it's a different category. First - it's clear that it was intended for collectors only and second, its issue price undoubtedly contains a premium over FV. This time, Malta issued “a few” pieces out of this category, from some odd reason. Their purpose is to pay with them and exactly I would disagree they were not issued to the general public, at contrary - maybe they did not want them to end up “unused” in collections of us collectors (non-general public). I hate them for doing that as it costs my coin budget but it's a circulation coin now. But as some of them differ from the packed versions it makes them very interesting IMHO. Technically, central bank did not have to offer individual pieces as collector's demands “were fulfilled” by CCs and other similar issues. We can speculate about their own speculations and reasons and stretch to extremes that most or all of them might have ended up somewhere in somebody's vault (like 4 unissued Croatian 2021 denominations for instance) but unfortunately there will always be speculations in numismatics.

Just my 2 cents…or euros? :D

natbaj

I guess everyone would agree in this hobby there are never late replies and the new insights are always very welcome!

Fortunately or unfortunately, logical definition of a circulation coin does not allow “limited circulation” or similar constructs. It's one or another. If a coin is released to circulation (directly by bank or indirectly through collectors at face value - and it was meant primarily to be payment media, like “a 2 euro coin”) it's a circulation coin. Like for instance super rare mules or faulty designs(subtypes, varieties, whatever) found all over the world, or on the other hand pieces like Croatian 2 euros, with chance of finding one in circulation almost equals finding a piece from a set or winning a lottery.

If a coin say 2 euro is issued as a proof or exclusively in a coin card, then it's a different category. First - it's clear that it was intended for collectors only and second, its issue price undoubtedly contains a premium over FV. This time, Malta issued “a few” pieces out of this category, from some odd reason. Their purpose is to pay with them and exactly I would disagree they were not issued to the general public, at contrary - maybe they did not want them to end up “unused” in collections of us collectors (non-general public). I hate them for doing that as it costs my coin budget but it's a circulation coin now. But as some of them differ from the packed versions it makes them very interesting IMHO. Technically, central bank did not have to offer individual pieces as collector's demands “were fulfilled” by CCs and other similar issues. We can speculate about their own speculations and reasons and stretch to extremes that most or all of them might have ended up somewhere in somebody's vault (like 4 unissued Croatian 2021 denominations for instance) but unfortunately there will always be speculations in numismatics.

Just my 2 cents…or euros? :D

Well I disagree. If a national bank wants a coin to circulate, it certainly will not do what Malta has done. I can agree the reasons are not important, anyway if we look at the numbers it is clear those coins were not made for the general public. 

With the same logic, if a group of collectors for fun decide to buy let's say 3000 Asterix 2 euro coin cards and spend the coins at their nominal value,that would not turn the 2 euro into a “commemorative circulating”.

I am sure there are many examples of non circulating coins who got into circulation (and vice versa as well, 200 lire 1977 is an example from my country), anyway what I meant is that if a coin is not made for circulation sending a limited quantity of them to the banks will not change the fact that coin was manufactured for collectors.

I would specify “limited quantity circulating exemplars” though, and that would describe exactly the situation (meaning: do not expect it to pop out of a vending machine very easily) but of course this is just my opinion. 

Always nice to share views and ideas!

Anco5

 

With the same logic, if a group of collectors for fun decide to buy let's say 3000 Asterix 2 euro coin cards and spend the coins at their nominal value, that would not turn the 2 euro into a “commemorative circulating”.

It's not the same logic. Only national bank is the authority for issuing coins to the general circulation. But other than that I agree it's a sketchy thing and it makes little to no sense doing that, except changing its official (not numista) status to circulation piece.

I did not know for 200 lire '77. So, serie divisionale was made in 15M copies?

It would be easier to stick to the official classification of the mints 

The Italian mint didn't issue any official coin sets from 1971 till 1979 (there were problems with the limited quantity of coins in circulation). The 200 lire 1977 was the first 200 lirs coin and it was then stored by the population. Therefore, it was difficult to find a 200 lire 1977 in circulation, despite a high number was minted

natbaj

…. or on the other hand pieces like Croatian 2 euros, with chance of finding one in circulation almost equals finding a piece from a set or winning a lottery…

 

… most or all of them might have ended up somewhere in somebody's vault (like 4 unissued Croatian 2021 denominations for instance)…

Well, first of all, Croatia 2 euros are very common in Croatia, so… 😇 Of course, commemorative is harder to find, but it is there.

Secondly... I am interested to know (as a Croat) which 4 denominations were not issued in 2021? 

If it's some non-circulated coins, ok (I'm not collect those anyway), but otherwise…

But, what I actually really wanted ask here (and I read this topic with great interest) …

Any news on the Malta 2025. 2€ commemorative coins? 

I see they are being sold (here in Croatia and some other places) in a plain capsule (UNC), and a few have mentioned that they came directly from the (Malta) bank. 

Is it possible that they were actually put into circulation (and maybe someone found them in change) or is that definitely not the case?

Well, first of all, Croatia 2 euros are very common in Croatia, so… 😇 Of course, commemorative is harder to find, but it is there.

It's not there. All our commemoratives were and are distributed to collectors, completely. And hoarded for sale, so it's unlikely any single one ended in the circulation. It is possible but it's unlikely, just as it's possible with any proof set single piece. You can try at FINA packs of 2 euros :)
 

Secondly... I am interested to know (as a Croat) which 4 denominations were not issued in 2021? 

If it's some non-circulated coins, ok (I'm not collect those anyway), but otherwise…

1 lipa, 2 lipe, 2 kune and 5 kuna were minted by the HNB reports and never released. Also, these coins have never appeared on the numismatic market yet. Some people did broke the 2021 proof set to sell these individual coins as a result. Which was a bad decision, since these sets (minted in 500pcs) now cost quite some money…

But, what I actually really wanted ask here (and I read this topic with great interest) …

Any news on the Malta 2025. 2€ commemorative coins? 

Both of the 2024 and both of the 2025 were issued in rolls, seemingly at bigger quantity than these harder ones before as sellers do have them indeed. And they're not expensive. Especially 2025. So all 4 are circulation coins now.

P.S. Oh, and welcome :)

natbaj

Well, first of all, Croatia 2 euros are very common in Croatia, so… 😇 Of course, commemorative is harder to find, but it is there.

It's not there. All our commemoratives were and are distributed to collectors, completely. And hoarded for sale, so it's unlikely any single one ended in the circulation. It is possible but it's unlikely, just as it's possible with any proof set single piece. You can try at FINA packs of 2 euros :)
 

Secondly... I am interested to know (as a Croat) which 4 denominations were not issued in 2021? 

If it's some non-circulated coins, ok (I'm not collect those anyway), but otherwise…

 

1 lipa, 2 lipe, 2 kune and 5 kuna were minted by the HNB reports and never released. Also, these coins have never appeared on the numismatic market yet. Some people did broke the 2021 proof set to sell these individual coins as a result. Which was a bad decision, since these sets (minted in 500pcs) now cost quite some money…

 

But, what I actually really wanted ask here (and I read this topic with great interest) …

Any news on the Malta 2025. 2€ commemorative coins? 

 

Both of the 2024 and both of the 2025 were issued in rolls, seemingly at bigger quantity than these harder ones before as sellers do have them indeed. And they're not expensive. Especially 2025. So all 4 are circulation coins now.

P.S. Oh, and welcome :)

The Central Bank of Malta issued 2025 coins in rolls for the first time since 2022, so the coins you see for sale are being sold from sellers that managed to get their hands on some rolls. As for 2024, I correct you, they were issued in coin cards and BU coins in capsules, no rolls were sold from the bank. 

natbaj

 

All our commemoratives were and are distributed to collectors, completely. And hoarded for sale, so it's unlikely any single one ended in the circulation. It is possible but it's unlikely, just as it's possible with any proof set single piece. You can try at FINA packs of 2 euros :)
 

 

1 lipa, 2 lipe, 2 kune and 5 kuna were minted by the HNB reports and never released….

 

 

Both of the 2024 and both of the 2025 were issued in rolls, seemingly at bigger quantity than these harder ones before as sellers do have them indeed. And they're not expensive. Especially 2025. So all 4 are circulation coins now.

P.S. Oh, and welcome :)

Thanks. 

I'm relatively new here, regarding activity, while I using Numista more than a year as numismatic bug striked me again after 35 years. These time, relativelly hard 😜😷

Also I didn't figure it out how to make multiple quote in one post, so…

Regarding first question, I'm not sure I understand you (it would be super easy on our language, but this is wrong place for that 😊) but I can tell you that I saw numerous 2€ Croatia CC for sale/swap from circulation. 

Yes, part of it goes to collectors - finally we have some decent system of reservation (UNC) since 3rd commemorative, before that was a bit like "wild west". 

By the way, on Saturday a friend (from Dubrovnik) sent me a picture of the first Croatian commemorative coin - he got it in change. And it wasn't the first one he got that way.

For 2021, yeah… I presumed that, since I go and looked at Kuna mintage for that year afterwards. Luckily, I don't collect years 😎

And Malta 2025 (and 2024)…

Well, then we have a problem here. You claim that all 4 are circulation coins. Yet, all four here are marked as non-circulation coins. 

LaMaltese

 

The Central Bank of Malta issued 2025 coins in rolls for the first time since 2022, so the coins you see for sale are being sold from sellers that managed to get their hands on some rolls. As for 2024, I correct you, they were issued in coin cards and BU coins in capsules, no rolls were sold from the bank. 

Thanks for that input, LaMaltese.

As I said, and enjoyed reading whole topic and all “grey areas” that surrounds last few years of Malta commemorative coins. 
And it seems that there is some uncertainty for 2025  (if not for 2024).

Maybe new topic would be more apropriate, but I tough that would be good idea to continue here, because problem is the same, just different years.

Honestly, I don't know what to think after all this. Are anyone in Malta (or elsewhere) finded, or knew that somebody is found some from 2025. in circulation? 

In a case of 2022. and 2023. commemorative coins that was a “proof”, of them being in circulation. As for 2024. let's say I'm convinced now that all are BU. It's clear enough now.

I don't collect coins that haven't been released for circulation. So, no BU, no Proof.
It's not about the price, it's about the choice. Just like I don't collect Common series of euro.

So, 2025. seems like one more "grey area", at least for my understanding. Which could be wrong, of course 😎

StenK

LaMaltese

 

The Central Bank of Malta issued 2025 coins in rolls for the first time since 2022, so the coins you see for sale are being sold from sellers that managed to get their hands on some rolls. As for 2024, I correct you, they were issued in coin cards and BU coins in capsules, no rolls were sold from the bank. 

Thanks for that input, LaMaltese.

As I said, and enjoyed reading whole topic and all “grey areas” that surrounds last few years of Malta commemorative coins. 
And it seems that there is some uncertainty for 2025  (if not for 2024).

Maybe new topic would be more apropriate, but I tough that would be good idea to continue here, because problem is the same, just different years.

Honestly, I don't know what to think after all this. Are anyone in Malta (or elsewhere) finded, or knew that somebody is found some from 2025. in circulation? 

In a case of 2022. and 2023. commemorative coins that was a “proof”, of them being in circulation. As for 2024. let's say I'm convinced now that all are BU. It's clear enough now.

 

I don't collect coins that haven't been released for circulation. So, no BU, no Proof.
It's not about the price, it's about the choice. Just like I don't collect Common series of euro.

So, 2025. seems like one more "grey area", at least for my understanding. Which could be wrong, of course 😎

The Central Bank says that up to 2024 they have all been IFC, even if small numbers have been issued for circulation, for 2025 it’s not quite clear yet. As for finds from circulation, all coins up till 2022 have been found, both in Malta and outside Malta, I can confirm this, I do not know of any instances of people finding 2023/2024 yet though, but please note that the bank puts coins in circulation very late after issue, so it might be yhat they haven’t been released as of yet but will be in the future, like €1 2023 Malta regular was only released into circulation last month, so they take time…

Exactly, as LaMaltese said… We are waiting for the official figures from central bank so the status can be changed.

As of 2024, after my question about any updates on these issues here I have seen these have been appearing on the market as from rolls. For example

https://www.ebay.com/itm/326660905961

I have also bought from another source both and both were without card. So I guess just like 2023, these figures will be published afterwards.
And yes, both Maltese and Croatian banks are distributing them in very wrong ways. At least now it's better - you can get 3 or 5 pcs per person depending on issue. Yet, people get whole rolls, especially sellers abroad. How?

natbaj

Exactly, as LaMaltese said… We are waiting for the official figures from central bank so the status can be changed.

As of 2024, after my question about any updates on these issues here I have seen these have been appearing on the market as from rolls. For example

https://www.ebay.com/itm/326660905961

I have also bought from another source both and both were without card. So I guess just like 2023, these figures will be published afterwards.
And yes, both Maltese and Croatian banks are distributing them in very wrong ways. At least now it's better - you can get 3 or 5 pcs per person depending on issue. Yet, people get whole rolls, especially sellers abroad. How?

Well, you need to know “somebody”, “the right guy” 😅  You know that. 

I've heard a few firsthand stories that are almost unbelievable. But apparently things work out for a few of them, so they have access to what 99.5% of collectors can only dream of.

Bottom line… There will always be people who can get more of it and those who will buy from them, because you can't always get things directly from a bank. Except the central bank. Which could be 300 kilometers away from you, and you don't know “the right guy” on top of that.

Regarding that link from Ebay… 
Well, that's what Numista says (btw. price is practically same as BU, so it is BU, just in capsule). That is still non-circulating coins. For me. Stating that it is "from the original roll"... It may or may not be. For now, all we know is that these coins have not been found in circulation.

So yes… I will would wait little longer to see what, at least for 2025. “verdict” would be. 

Anyway, I'm still missing quite a few Maltese cc's (not counting those from the last two years), so I have something else to spend the money on or make a swap 😎

And it would be good if someone find out something for sure about the coins for the years mentioned here, to post it in this topic. I mean, if the administration agrees to continue here.