When a swap goes wrong ... [solved]

An attempted swap with a suspicious account from MiahPara, Mankachar, India:

He gets only 3 coins in his collection and multiple very expensive world coins in his swap list, a new member, without previous swaps who contacts me:

(Him) May we swap

(Me) Hello,
I've got difficulties to equilibrate the swap cause you get an impressive amount of very expensive coins in your swap list !
…

(Him) Aren't you interested because I am ok with the coins you have selected 

(Me) I'm always interested to swap. I'll sort your coins tomorrow and send you a scan. You're new on this website, some collectors will try to get your expensive coins in exchange for worthless coins, because, no joke, you really get some exceptional coins in your swap list !

…

(Me) Hello, your coins are ready. I'll add some french coins up to 250g. The price change after 250g but there will be no so much coins cause the weight with folders is already 220g then I'll pack each coin individually in plastic sheet. To finalize the swap I send you two scans of your coins. If you have a scan, you may use it too.

I send registered letter.

As you are new on this website, it's usual on Numista that you send your letter first and when I receive it, I'll send my package. This habit is used to avoid problems with false accounts.

Don't worry I have already performed 133 swaps in Numista and I have always got the maximum rating, so be sure that I will send your coins.

If you accept to send first, I will confirm the swap and you will send me your envelop to :

 …

(Him) My package is also ready just waiting for your confirmation 

(Me) Nice !
I understand that you'll send first, please send me the registered number when you get it
 

(Him) Are you done with the packing and ready for shipment 

(Me) Sure, but I'll send your coins when I receive yours. I've been quite clear on that point.

(Him) Why don't you send on the same day 

(Me) I've already explain to you that there are some false accounts on Numista, and then accounts with less than 10 swaps might be suspicious, so the habit is for these accounts is that they send first. I don't say that is the case here, but you encounter no risk because I've already get 133 swaps with the highest ranking note.

(Him) I know that but we should trust each other and trust me I swear in the name of Almighty God that I want a genuine swap with you, so I am asking you to send it on the same day that's it brother. Now it's upto you.

(Me) You sent no scan, there is a possibility that you will send no coin at all.

I encourage you to develop your point of view on this new thread I just opened.

Thanks

(Him) You have done so many swaps no doubt on that, does that mean that you will judge a new member in your own way and make him do what ever you want, Let me say you one thing clean and clear, if we swap then both of us will send our coins on the same day else you can cancel the swap simple as that. Thnk u

(Me) Please send me scan or a precise picture of these coins I selected.

If you do not take this photo, it will prove that you are not honest and your account will be deleted.
Regards

I personally find exchanging is getting harder and harder now. I have nil record here. 😁

Is it the same guy who has e.g. these pictures from the Internet attached to the coins of his swaplist?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rare-Australian-Two-Dollar-2-coin-2017-POSSUM-MAGIC-Coloured-Invisible-UNC-/313459399266?nma=true&si=3FStfWj4oad3QFA2YbP4VYkXezM%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MS66-2-PCGS-2015-Red-Lest-We-Forget-War-Graves-/285458472707?mkcid=1&mkrid=705-53470-19255-0&campid=5338722076&customid=&toolid=10050&nma=true&si=3FStfWj4oad3QFA2YbP4VYkXezM%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

https://www.euro-muenzen.tv/img04/Greece-2-Euro-Coin-35-Years-of-the-Erasmus-Programme-2022-in-a-blister-pack-3357650-165846320453308.jpg

And who make collages instead of confirmation photo of all the requested coins?

Grinya

Is it the same guy who has e.g. these pictures from the Internet attached to the coins of his swaplist?

…

 

There are only two pictures attached for coins I selected in his swaplist but you're right: 

one of them comes from ma-shops

and for the other attached picture, he bluntly copied directly the picture of the Numista sheet 🤣

I see this guy has 7 swaps on the road.

I bet he'll manage to fool one or two members before changing his name.

But I see Xavier reacts quickly

Hmm. Usually the scammers will start out with medium common items, rather than listing rarities. 

When some newbie lists a Palestine Currency Board £10 note, or an Irish Ploughman £10 note in EF,, both with a value in the mid-thougsands of Pounds at the time, I get suspicious [note, this was an actual ‘seller’ on ebay, listing images harvested from recent auctions].

You are quite right to insist on your terms, of sending after you receive his post. 

It is up to a newbie without any feedback to establish their trustworthiness.

The scammer's post is probably going to be an empty envelope with a repair on it to make it appear that the items were stolen in transit. 

Frenchlover

I see this guy has 7 swaps on the road.

I bet he'll manage to fool one or two members before changing his name.

But I see Xavier reacts quickly

If this member has been tagged by Admins as being suspicious I think it's time to name names. 

I gave the city in the first line of my discussion thread, 

the name doesn't matter since he will be free to change his name later

It's all based on trust…if there is no trust, then no swap! 

Frenchlover

I gave the city in the first line of my discussion thread, 

the name doesn't matter since he will be free to change his name later

Thanks for the map. I found him. I asked because he initiated a swap with me last week.  I just declined it because of this post.

Maybe the same guy. I just had a swap offer also from India that didn't want to send first and got upset at me for having to many rules. My only rule was that he had to send first. He had no swap ratings. Oh and one coin he wanted was already spoken for.

Edit

Yep same guy. Just looked on the map, same location.

David52

… Oh and one coin he wanted was already spoken for.

…

🤪I hadn't thought of this trick to detect a problem during a swap 😄

His account will soon be closed.

Lessons learned:
- never trust a newbies: he must send first, put this constraint in your profile,
- If he does not want to send you a scan or if his photos come directly from the internet, run away,
- be wary of swaps that are too easy, when whatever you ask, he is ok. This is not new, Hesiod already said it in “Works and Days” in the eighth century BC: “No illegitimate gains: To win in this way is to lose.”
- if the swap list is too weird, it's not serious. For example my correspondent did not care about the year or the mint even for coins of his own country in his swap list.
- and then of course, if he asks for the same coins as the one you are asking for, then there is indeed a problem!

and don't hesitate to launch a warning if your swapper looks odds

Frenchlover

David52

… Oh and one coin he wanted was already spoken for.

…

🤪I hadn't thought of this trick to detect a problem during a swap 😄

 

His account will soon be closed.

 

Lessons learned:
- never trust a newbies: he must send first, put this constraint in your profile,
 

Hmmm... that is a bit harsh. You are simply generalising everyone who is new here like me who has no track records (in exchanging), are not to be trusted?

Shouldn't this also be blamed on those who may be greedy and think that he/she is getting a bargain?

ahkai

 

 

Lessons learned:
- never trust a newbies: he must send first, put this constraint in your profile,
 

Hmmm... that is a bit harsh. You are simply generalising everyone who is new here like me who has no track records (in exchanging), are not to be trusted?

This was the case for me when I was new to this site to send first and I was rather reassured to swap with members who had already done a lot of swaps.
I never took this constraint as bullying and I understood that trust must be build and not just declare as the answer  I quoted "I swear in the name of Almighty God …"

 

Shouldn't this also be blamed on those who may be greedy and think that he/she is getting a bargain?
 

I'm not sure to understand your question. 

For me a swap is usually a bargain mean of getting some new coin types which are available in other countries at a cheaper price than in France, in the same way that I will easily find some coins in France which will be cheaper than in your country.

ahkai

 

Hmmm... that is a bit harsh. You are simply generalising everyone who is new here like me who has no track records (in exchanging), are not to be trusted?

 

Shouldn't this also be blamed on those who may be greedy and think that he/she is getting a bargain?

Hi ahkai,

that's how we all started, me in 2012 in numista, before that it was the same, if you were not in somebody's good swappers list, you had to send first.

The rule is to prevent an experienced swapper to send coins to fraudulent partner. When you have done it once, you have learned your lesson. Hence Frenchlover is right in following that rule. I don't believe a lot in the exchange of images as proof of anything, I don't send images of my coins, since it's time lost, in my opinion.

Sjoelund

ahkai

 

Hmmm... that is a bit harsh. You are simply generalising everyone who is new here like me who has no track records (in exchanging), are not to be trusted?

 

Shouldn't this also be blamed on those who may be greedy and think that he/she is getting a bargain?

Hi ahkai,

 

that's how we all started, me in 2012 in numista, before that it was the same, if you were not in somebody's good swappers list, you had to send first.

 

The rule is to prevent an experienced swapper to send coins to fraudulent partner. When you have done it once, you have learned your lesson. Hence Frenchlover is right in following that rule. I don't believe a lot in the exchange of images as proof of anything, I don't send images of my coins, since it's time lost, in my opinion.

Hi The Dane in Paris,
 

I was aware of this site back in the early 2010s, but at that time it was only for coin collectors. Before that, you and I were members of the YahooGroup Coins Club until the owner decided to shut it down.

I have no issues if I do not get any offers for exchange here or not. I buy most of my notes nowaday anyway. It's much easier. Negotiations for exchanges are getting harder now. Everyone wants your best notes, what has been agreed upon may not be what you will get later. I am not looking for any exchange partners here, and if anyone wants to exchange with me, they are most welcome to do so, just like the Colnect forum.

Ciao