Alignment of affiliation Dutch mint masters [solved]

I noticed an inconsistency in the mint affiliations provided for at least one Dutch mint master.

The mint masters for Utrecht (seat of the Dutch Royal Mint) are listed here: 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/mint.php?id=23

At least for van Hengel, note the difference in affiliation, which also means he's not listed under Utrecht: 

J.W.A. van Hengel, Mint Master, Royal Dutch Mint (1945-1969)

Marius van den Brandhof, Mint Master, Utrecht (1969-1980)

I think he should be changed to Utrecht for consistency. For coins bearing his privy mark and the Utrecht mint mark see for instance:

N#733

N#4982

The Utrecht mark is consistent across mint masters on them. 

I don't think the mint masters prior to van Hengel are encoded yet. If they are worth aligning, if not work to do :)

Many thanks and best wishes, 

53th0s

We might also be still missing some older ones, their privy marks included.

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic127228.html

I fear it's even a bit more complicated than I thought.

Here's Utrecht: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/mint.php?id=23

Dates of operation 1010-2020 

BUT mintmaster entries include:

Stephan Satijn, Mint Master, Utrecht (2017-2021)

Bert van Ravenswaaij, Mint Master, Utrecht (2022-date)

Here's Royal Dutch Mint: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/mint.php?id=4668

Dates of operation 2020-date

BUT only one mintmaster entry attached:

J.W.A. van Hengel, Mint Master, Royal Dutch Mint (1945-1969)

Someone else will need to be the judge whether the 2020 split makes, from the wikipedia entry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_Mint)  I don't see why any split makes sense and should be  specifically 2020 rather than 2016 when it was sold or 1994 when it was renamed etc ….

Edit: 

From the Royal Dutch Mint's website (https://royaldutchmint-corporate.com/about-us/#history):

The Royal Dutch Mint was founded in Utrecht in 1567, placing it among the oldest businesses in the Netherlands. During the 16th century, the Netherlands was home to a number of mints, each of which struck their own currency. In 1806, it was decided that the country should have one, central mint – the Utrecht Mint – and a single national currency.

After many years as a State-run institution, the Mint became an independent commercial organisation in 1994. The Dutch State remained involved as 100% shareholder. In 1999, the Mint was granted the right to bear the prestigious ‘Royal’ predicate. The King of the Netherlands reserves this predicate for a select group of Dutch businesses, as it symbolises the King’s respect, trust and appreciation for those organisations. In 2016, the Royal Dutch Mint became the first European mint to privatize its operations. This step enabled the Mint to improve its responsiveness, customer service and efficiency by means of a more effective decision-making structure and the ability to pursue long-term goals and strategies.

We shouldnt split indeed. Per our guidelines, we split only if 2 entities are operating in parallel. Just a name change does not require a split.

Compendium

We shouldnt split indeed. Per our guidelines, we split only if 2 entities are operating in parallel. Just a name change does not require a split.

The mint did change city in 2020, from Utrecht to Houten - some 10km away from Utrecht, basically the next town over. I don't see anything in the guidelines that would capture such an event.  

Maybe could be combined as “Utrecht, Netherlands (Royal Dutch Mint, since 2020 in Houten, 1567-date)”?

Where the 1010 starting date in the Utrecht entry comes from is unclear to me. Oldest coin on Numista linked to Utrecht is from 1567 indeed 

N#97240

If Houten is a suburb I'd say we do not split.

I found older coins: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?r=&ct=coin&im1=&im2=&tb=y&tc=y&tn=y&tp=y&tt=y&cat=y&ru=&ca=3&no=&v=&i=&b=&d=&u=&a=&dg=100-1500&m=&f=&t=&w=&mt=&g=&se=&mi=23&c=&wi=&sw=&ie=

I tried that, what do you think?

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/mint.php?id=23

Compendium

I tried that, what do you think?

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/mint.php?id=23

Not so sure about the ‘modern-day’, Utrecht didn't get renamed, Houten is a different town (though in Utrecht province).

Point taken on the date, I must have bodged that search somehow …

We have 3 possibilities:

- remove Houden from title (I'm not sure anyone would search it anyway) but leave it in comments and make it searchable with field “alt name”

- put a long custom location like “Utrecht, then Houden”

- leave it as it is

Compendium

We have 3 possibilities:

- remove Houden from title (I'm not sure anyone would search it anyway) but leave it in comments and make it searchable with field “alt name”

- put a long custom location like “Utrecht, then Houden”

- leave it as it is

My personal preference would be the first option, given that it's still in Utrecht Province and this appears to have been driven by needing more space rather than some more fundamental consideration of giving Utrecht up as the seat of the mint. 

Maybe also some more of the history of the Royal Dutch Mint as described on Wikipedia and the corporate website could be added in the comments - particularly the founding of the RDM in 1567 and the privatisation in 2016. I think that's useful information. And ‘Royal Dutch Mint’ should probably also appear as ‘alt name’, I suppose.

Done :-)

Thanks, really appreciate your quick and pragmatic help! 

Just for ‘Place’ I'd still like to suggest an alternative phrasing: 

Utrecht,  Netherlands

Since 2020 Houten (Utrecht Province)

53th0s

Thanks, really appreciate your quick and pragmatic help! 

 

Just for ‘Place’ I'd still like to suggest an alternative phrasing: 

 

Utrecht,  Netherlands

Since 2020 Houten (Utrecht Province)

Unfortunately I only have two options: “also known as” and “modern-day”, we do not have feature in DB for moving in same district

Hmm, if possible then maybe just 

Utrecht (Province), Netherlands 

And leave Houten to the comments? 

There are several other mints in this province, so i would not be comfortable with this title…

I cheated a bit and tried another way, let me know if its better :-)

Compendium

I cheated a bit and tried another way, let me know if its better :-)

Works for me, thanks :) 

Let's see what others have to say, including Dutch referees.

The Royal Dutch Mint in Houten should be listed separately from the Royal Dutch Mint in Utrecht.

The same thing has been done with the South African Mint, which closed down in Pretoria - & is now in Centurion, so both are listed separately.

Aidan.