The Vikings in the British Isles [solved]

The Vikings that came to Britain and Ireland are currently rather confusingly placed in categories to which they don't belong:

Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms:

Bearing in mind the Anglo-Saxons and the Vikings didn't exactly get along, this isn't right. It would be like including France in ‘United Kingdom’ because England once ruled a large chunk of the country, or visa versa.

Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms includes:

Kingdom of East Anglia:

Includes both Anglo-Saxon and Viking rulers. It is, however, an Anglo-Saxon Kingdom. The Kingdom was taken over by the Vikings in 869 (after Eadmund) and so all the coins from that point are Viking and sitting under a defunct Anglo-Saxon kingdom (Aethelstan II and the imitations).  This became part of the Danelaw. In Spink, these are called ‘Danish East Anglia’ .

Vikings of York:

These are correctly titled and grouped, except they are also under ‘Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms’, which they were not. They were also part of the Danelaw.

Hiberno-Norse Kingdoms:

Hiberno-Norse Kingdom of Dublin:
These seem to be listed under rulers as part of Ireland, which is a modern state. There's Sigtrygg II Silkbeard Olafsson and anonymous types. If this made sense, then the above Vikings in England should come under the United Kingdom, not ‘Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms’.

Hiberno-Norse Vikings of York:
Note that Olaf Guthfrithson, a Hiberno-Norse ruler of Dublin, also ruled York from 939-944, and struck the famous raven pennies. His coins (and those of several other rulers of Dublin and York) are under ‘Vikings of York’ as ‘Hiberno-Norse Vikings of York’.

In Spink, ‘Danish East Anglia’, ‘Kingdom of East Anglia’, ‘Southern Danelaw’ (the imitations) and ‘Hiberno-Norse Vikings of York’ come under ‘Anglo-Viking Coinages'. Together with the Irish Vikings, they could become the Viking Kingdoms of the British Isles and be referenced in UK and Ireland searches.

Given how closely related the coinage is, would Anglo-Saxon and Hiberno-Norse Kingdoms section work?

As I think the whole issue comes from the naming ("Anglo Saxon Kingdoms"), I tend to agree with Jarcek that a change in name would be sufficient, right? 
 

I agree with moving Vikings out of Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms. Voted yes.

However, I would disagree with moving Hiberno-Norse Kingdom of Dublin out of the Ireland section. Ireland is an island, currently divided into two modern states.

While 'Viking Kingdoms of the British Isles' is not an objectionable term, it would be a term unique to numista which might cause confusion when compared with other catalogue references. 

As a collector of the coins, I would always expect to find Irish Hiberno-Norse coinage listed under Ireland in any general catalogue.

We could leave them together with a longer name, if the aim is to take a simpler path. But it's uncomfortable, a bit of an ‘other’ box, as there are lots of groups that have related coinage (including the Hibero-Norse of Ireland). You could put them in with the Merovingians, for example, whose coinage is closely related to the early Anglo-Saxons, or early Danish coins (whose kings were Anglo-Danish). Better that they are separate.

While I agree with Hibernia that you'd expect to find Irish Hiberno-Norse coinage listed under Ireland, this would also be the case for Anglo-Saxon and Viking coinage from England. It isn't listed under England, because a decision has been made to separate it from the modern state. It doesn't make sense for this to be correct for England but not for Ireland. The section would still be linked at the top of an Ireland search.

'Viking Kingdoms of the British Isles' would not be a unique term to Numista. At the end of the Viking section, Spink specifically refers readers to a reference called 'Viking Coinage in the British Isles'.

Hibernia

I agree with moving Vikings out of Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms. Voted yes.

 

However, I would disagree with moving Hiberno-Norse Kingdom of Dublin out of the Ireland section. Ireland is an island, currently divided into two modern states.

 

While 'Viking Kingdoms of the British Isles' is not an objectionable term, it would be a term unique to numista which might cause confusion when compared with other catalogue references. 

 

As a collector of the coins, I would always expect to find Irish Hiberno-Norse coinage listed under Ireland in any general catalogue.

Yeah, good luck with that, the Numista Dictatorship have already removed the HIberno-Norse Kingdom of York away from England 😒

We both renamed the section and added Dublin kingdom in it, I think we can close

The Viking Kingdom of Dublin should be in a subsection under ‘Ireland’, as is any other Hiberno-Norse coins.

The coins of Viking England should be listed under ‘Viking England - Danelaw’, along wth the relevent rulers.

Aidan.

Compendium

We both renamed the section and added Dublin kingdom in it, I think we can close

That is a very courageous step – the first serious catalogue to not list Hiberno-Norse coins under Ireland.

Hibernia

Compendium

We both renamed the section and added Dublin kingdom in it, I think we can close

That is a very courageous step – the first serious catalogue to not list Hiberno-Norse coins under Ireland.

 

Hiberno-Norse coins should be under ‘Ireland’ - along with those of the Viking Kingdom of Dublin.

The High Kings of Ireland & the regional Irish kings never had their own coins, as far as I am aware.

Aidan.