Help identifying mediaeval Hungarian coin - contemporary fake from era of Maximilian II [solved]

Hi, I think this coin may be medieval  Hungarian but can’t seem to find a match in the catalogue.

Appears to have seated Madonna with child on one side, and Hungarian coat of arms with single cross top right quadrant.

Diameter - 14-15mm

Weight - approx 0.4g

Appears to be copper, rather than silver, gold or billon.

Any help would be much appreciated,

many thanks

cheers

Here’s a slightly clearer picture of the coat of arms

Hi 

This is from Transylvania 

It looks like N#72336

Sof1a the S1nger

Hi 

 

This is from Transylvania 

It looks like N#72336

Thanks for the reply - I’m not sure it is this one ….. the listing says it”s silver, but mine looks copper in colour. Also on the listing you suggest, thee are letters either side of the coat of arms, whereas on mine, the letters appear to be either side of the Madonna and child on the obverse ….. there are quite a few similar to mine, but struggling to find a match …..

thanks again, and a happy new year,

cheers

Hi & A HAPPY NEW YEAR to you too! 🍷🎇

My opinion is that if your coin (that you correctly searched in the area Kingdom of Hungary-Principality of Transylvania) is not,at least,made of billon,then it may be a contemporary counterfeit. Even unofficially struck in those times by other official authorities than the coin's original issuer. I recently learned that one or a few of the Reigning Princes of Moldavia or Valahia managed to struck,in large quantities & in their own economical interests,counterfeited silver coins of different denominations & from different European countries… Interesting,no?!? 😜

Andi👋

AndiPasculescu10

Hi & A HAPPY NEW YEAR to you too! 🍷🎇

My opinion is that if your coin (that you correctly searched in the area Kingdom of Hungary-Principality of Transylvania) is not,at least,made of billon,then it may be a contemporary counterfeit. Even unofficially struck in those times by other official authorities than the coin's original issuer. I recently learned that one or a few of the Reigning Princes of Moldavia or Valahia managed to struck,in large quantities & in their own economical interests,counterfeited silver coins of different denominations & from different European countries… Interesting,no?!? 😜

Andi👋

Interesting …. the engraving does look a bit “rudimentary “ which may support your theory, especially the cross in the top right quadrant. I was also wondering if it was actually Hungarian, as most of the coat of arms I found had straight edges, whereas this one has an indent on each side. I don’t know enough about silver or billon to know whether it can take on a “coppery” hue after time though,

thanks for your idea though,

cheers

Forgery from the era of the denarius of the Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary, Maximilian II Habsburg. While the Mother of God with the Child and the coat of arms are made quite correctly, the ring legends are practically a collection of random letters and symbols. Coin minted in copper, originally silver plated. The mint in Suceava, the capital of Moldova, specialized in such forgeries. It flooded the neighboring countries with counterfeit coin, mainly Polish, Swedish and Prussian, and also, as you can see here, Hungarian. Most of it is primitive production. It was only after 1662, when Tytus Livius Boratini, the manager of the Ujazdów mint, fled from Poland to Moldova, that the forgery production became of high quality. It was hard to tell the difference between pennies and triplets, fake and real. The fake ones, of course, had almost no silver, they were copper, silvered.

Hi & A HAPPY NEW YEAR for you too,Mariusz!

This is what I was talking about,the ''official-unofficial😉'' forgeries issued by some Moldavian voïevode(s),in contemporary times.

So,colleague Coincoll22,I was right with my ''theory''(which is now no more only as such!). Thanks to our colleague Mariusz & his added information,you received the confirmation of how the reality is and of what ''status'' your tiny coin has: a contemporary fake!

Andi👋

Friend Mariusz,a little clarification: Suceava was the capital of Moldova Principality up to 1564 ; from 1565 the new capital became Iassy(lasted as official capital of the Moldavian state up to 1859 and then,as an unofficial one,up to our present days,for the Moldova region of Romania).

Friend Coincoll22,the ‘’official-unofficial'' counterfeiting of local & foreign coins lasted for almost 4 centuries in the 2 independent romanian principalities(Wallachia & mostly Moldova), starting in 1365-1370 in Wallachia.

I send you a screenshort of a PDF article on this subject:

Andi👋

Many thanks to both of you for clearing up - that explains both the colour and the fact i couldn’t make sense of the writing around the edge !

This is why I love this forum - always something new to learn 👍

 cheers

Hello about this copper coin, in Slovakia at the Castle Museum of Fiľakovo there is at least 4-6 coins made from copper that I have seen displayed there. They were minted in the 16th century.