Numista is now available in Spanish. This will facilitate the access to Numista for Spanish users.
The content of the website and a lot of data from the catalogue have been translated to Spanish. More translations are still ongoing.
The texts for individual types in the catalogue (titles, descriptions, comments, etc.) will not be translated though and they are not editable in Spanish, at least for the moment: the Spanish version will use the texts in English, in order to avoid risks related to having multiple versions of the catalogue.
I had a look, and saw what I expected to see, a lot of translations into English and back again. I still can't see, what it brings the numista community as a whole? If a theme, which would normally interest me a lot, is opened on the Spanish site, how would I as a not Spanish-speaking member find out about it? So I lose out on this change, don't I? (It's not my fault, that I actually still speak a bit of Spanish, but not many of us do, do we?). Now I have to go through the English, the French and the Spanish sites every day, if I want to be kept up to date…..
Personally, I don't speak spanish but I'm happy for our spanish speaking members.
This being said, It would have been nice to let the members choose the language they would prefer to see the untranslated fields. I suppose it was too complicated. Maybe it's not a relevant suggestion as you plan, in a second phase, too translate the rest of the fields ?
Either way, congratulation to the team (translators, etc.) for this evolution. You had to put in a lot of work and we all should appreciate it.
Best regards,
Québécois
Ancienement, référent du Canada / FYI former referee for Canada
I just spent a half hour looking through the Spanish Forum and I speak next to no Spanish. I used Microsoft Edge and every page was automatically translated into English. I didn't have to do anything extra to read through the posts.
Replying to a post in Spanish would have been a different story though.
Ne parlant qu'une langue, j'utilise également un traducteur pour lire et comprendre plus de 150 langues, parfois pour taper une réponse bien que cela ne soit pas toujours accepté.
Avec 2 versions qui ne sont pas de qualité équivalentes je doute pour les suivantes
Quoi qu'il en soit, félicitations pour le travail fourni
Chacun chez soi et tout ira bien
Speaking only one language, I also use a translator to read and understand more than 150 languages, sometimes to type an answer although it is not always accepted. With 2 versions that are not of equivalent quality I doubt for the following ones Anyway, congratulations for the work done. Everyone at home and everything will be fine
It is good now we have a Numista in Spanish because that has lifted the language barrier and unlocked possible undocumented information regarding coins, banknotes and Exonumia.
Hi to whoever is reading this. Did you know that TYPEWRITER (on a QWERTY keyboard) is the longest word you can type using only the letters on one row of the keyboard.
Answering the questions from Québécois and inc7007: translating the texts of individual coins (title, description, comments, etc.) is not available yet and I have no date about when it will become available. I first want to see how the Spanish version gets adopted in the coming months and what are the feedback before reopening this question.
It is good now we have a Numista in Spanish because that has lifted the language barrier and unlocked possible undocumented information regarding coins, banknotes and Exonumia.
If you read Spanish, then yes, but otherwise are you going to google translate the whole Spanish site every day?
I had a look, and saw what I expected to see, a lot of translations into English and back again. I still can't see, what it brings the numista community as a whole? If a theme, which would normally interest me a lot, is opened on the Spanish site, how would I as a not Spanish-speaking member find out about it? So I lose out on this change, don't I? (It's not my fault, that I actually still speak a bit of Spanish, but not many of us do, do we?). Now I have to go through the English, the French and the Spanish sites every day, if I want to be kept up to date…..
The Emperor's new clothes in a new packet?
Are you talking seriously? We are opening something to facilitate the life and access to information to Spanish-speaking people. People who are not comfortable reading and writing in English can now get access to the numismatic catalogue and have a discussion forum. Will you fight the same way with any Spanish-speaking forum on the Internet, because they may distract them from the English-speaking forums that you are using? The English side of Numista will not lose anything with this change, and nobody will force you to open the Spanish version.
If you're that serious, then I look forward to a German language part as well! Why not?
How will you vote for suggestions concerning the database or suggestions to improve numista, on each language site? How will decisive votes be shared between the 3 language sites? Who will translate newly entered coins or modifications from Spanish to English and French (google is not reliable on a word to word basis, only on phrases!)? Are your referees able to do that, or will you add new people to do that?
No, I'll not fight any Spanish speaking forum on the Internet, did I ever mention such a crazy idea? I'm only talking about numista, where we might end up with 3 isolated communities not communicating, which is really a shame. Please answer the questions above.
I'll definitely consider adding German. Let's first see how it goes with the Spanish version.
Votes and suggestions already work with 2 languages, so why not with 3 languages? Probably that's one aspect we need to improve, to have better communication between the various language communities. But that's definitely not a showstopper for me.
Editing the texts in the catalogue in multiple languages is challenging. That's why I decided not to translate them for the moment (see my messages above). Only the entities from the database are translated (issuers, rulers, currencies, compositions, shapes, calendars, etc.). It means that Spanish speakers will still see some parts in English (the titles, descriptions, comments, etc.), but I believe this is an acceptable trade-off. We can review that in a couple of months when we'll have some feedback.
I'm happy to hear you'll not fight other Spanish numismatic forums but only the Numista Spanish forum. Now I fail to understand why it's better to have Spanish numismatic forums hosted only outside of Numista rather than also on Numista. I'd assume that communication with the Spanish numismatic community is easier if they are also on Numista, even with the language barrier, than on a different website?
I tried Chrome. The Forum Index page has the translate feature as does the individual forums but you have to ask it to translate every new page. Also, the translate feature seems not be present on a forum post?
Hello, having a site like Numista in the language of many of us who use this website is something that I think can help many Spanish-speaking people.
I understand and respect that there are opinions of all kinds, but I see that most of them are based on personal assessments and not on a possible general interest of the users of this website.
As an example, I can understand English and, more or less, express myself in that language (not French), but there may be many people, like my 83-year-old father who only speaks Spanish, who are grateful to have a large part of the catalog already translated.
What many of us see as simple (basic internet management, google translate, etc...) may not be so simple for many users of this website.
Sure there is a lot of work to do and many things to improve, but at first, Numista in Spanish seems like a great improvement for many users.
Coin referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea, Marshall Islands, Moldova, Liberia and Spain
Banknote referee for: Andorra, Equatorial Guinea and Spain
you're right, what I'm afraid of is the missing communication between the communities, but Xavier is sure it's not a problem, and I simply have my big doubt!
Take care
Ole
Óscar,
tienes razón, lo que me da miedo es la falta de comunicación entre las comunidades, pero Xavier está seguro de que no es un problema, ¡y yo simplemente tengo mi gran duda!
Cuídate Viejo
("Viejo" is Spanish for Ole according to Google, although I'm only 76!)
Answering the questions from Québécois and inc7007: translating the texts of individual coins (title, description, comments, etc.) is not available yet and I have no date about when it will become available. I first want to see how the Spanish version gets adopted in the coming months and what are the feedback before reopening this question.
I do not know if this exists or is possible… Can you translate the English text of the database (content of fields, comments) to Spanish (with a Google API) before send the page to the navigator? (As a translator in server side).
----------------------------
About this…
Sjoelund
[…] If a theme, which would normally interest me a lot, is opened on the Spanish site, how would I as a not Spanish-speaking member find out about it? […]
can be a problem. I am from Spain and I will select the Spanish language. Then in forum I only can see Spanish topics, no English (or French) topics.
Perhaps can be show all forum topics (in the three languages) to all members. For example, the sections of the Numista forum can be:
Forum index in English
Coins
the four child forums…
Banknotes
the four child forums…
Exonumia
the four child forums…
General
the three child forums…
Index des forums en français
Pièces
the four child forums…
Billets
the four child forums…
Jetons, médailles, etc.
the four child forums…
Général
the three child forums…
Índice del foro en español
Monedas
the four child forums…
Billetes
the four child forums…
Exonumia
the four child forums…
General
the three child forums…
The order of sections can be: 1st the user language selected, 2nd and 3rd the others.
And the search box of the forum can search in all languages.
In other sites with forum the solution is different: There are normal sections in English and other special sections for other languages.
Wanted & swap list (euro coins & world coins, exonumia and banknotes circulated) https://goo.gl/AQjfKp - I have euro & world CC coins for swap.
Je n'ai rien contre les hispanophones ni contre les anglophones,encore moins contre les francophones, et pour cause.
Je préfère un unique site qui nous donnerait le maximum de renseignements, le plus complet possible
La dispersion n'est jamais bonne elle aboutit toujours à des disparitions pour les parties les plus faibles
Si la progression du catalogue est liée à s langue envisageons un version dans chaque langue et en latin pour les pièces romaines
C'est comme faire une version pour chaque catégorie numismatique
I have nothing against Spanish speakers or English speakers, even less against French speakers, and for good reason. I prefer a single site that would give us the maximum information, the most complete possible Dispersion is never good it always results in disappearances for the weaker parts If the progression of the catalog is linked to s language, we are considering a version in each language and in Latin for the Roman coins
It's like making a version for each numismatic category
Creposuc has nailed the problem, so now we're two seeing it the same way, but the universe of numista is still expanding and the Babel problem is on us.
Sorry Folks but I consider this debate a bit absurd… “Babel is on us”, really? Yes, world is big, people speak many languages, and a worldwide website like Numista is expected to extend language coverage.
Only other strategies would imply:
- either Numista not having the ambition to be a worldwide tool
- either hoping the entire world to speak same language (!)
Today spanish, tomorrow hopefully mandarin, japanese, german, italian, russian, portuguese, etc etc etc and it'd be great as it'd mean Numista's concept is useful!
Fearing to miss informations is odd to me, it is like fearing of missing out Internet as a whole just because there are websites in other languages than those one can understand 🙃
When you read a wikipedia page in English or else, do you also translate and read the 100-ish other versions of the topic, to be sure you won't miss any info or different point of view?
When you read a wikipedia page in English or else, do you also translate and read the 100-ish other versions of the topic, to be sure you won't miss any info or different point of view?
Il suffit de ne lire qu'une version : celle que l'on comprend , en la traduisant
elle serait en mandarin, japanese, german, italian, russian, portuguese, etc etc etc je ferais pareil
il n'y a pas de problèmes, il n'y a qu des solutions
besoin de personne pour m'enfiler mes chausettes
comme ici = like herel
Just read only one version: the one you understand, by translating it it would be in mandarin, japanese, german, italian, russian, portuguese, etc etc etc i would do the same there are no problems, only solutions need someone to put my socks on
For the catalogue, I agree reading one language should be enough to get all the information. In theorie the content should be the same everywhere.
Where we do risk to miss out is indeed the interactions on the forums. For the referee section, this has already been solved by only having one section for all languages … maybe something similar could be done for other forums, to merge them based on your preferences (see suggestion here: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic125802.html).
Just call me Bram
No new swaps for the moment, still too many half-ongoing swaps to clean up!
The problem of the multi-languages in this site but is common to any crowd-sourced sites, and IMHO the already worked out solutions are not completely satisfactory.
Crowd-sourced means that the contents are provided by the users' community.
A) admins take care of translation, and you propose a site for each language. But, this has some problems: 1) a huge effort is required by the admins, 2) people contribute in one language, and then we have to wait for the translations in the other language (this results in having different catalogues 3) forums and other parts supporting the interactions among the community members are duplicated for each language, and so in the end, we don't have ONE community, but several non-interacting communities).
B) as A) but the translations of the user contributions are provided by the community as it provides the contents (one translates, and then a referee checks the quality of the translation). Less effort is required from the admins, and a short time to get the translation, and hopefully, fewer chances that the various catalogues differ. Unfortunately, this not solves the forum issue.
C) Translations are provided either by admins or the community, a forum for each language. A user should list the know languages ordered by preference, say L1, …, Lk. The website shows the contents using L1, if they are available, then using L2, … ending with the contents available only in Lk. SImilarly, the forums show the entries in L1,…, Lk.
This approach should allow anyone to access all contents that they can read and to contribute using all the know languages without visiting several different catalogues and forums.
By the way, I don't know what happens when one adds a contribution using English: who/when will take care of providing the Fench/Spanish version?
The whole debate about language is pointless. Would it be errer to have it only in 1 language ? Yes! Is that realistic? No. In Europe we are 26 countries and no unity in 1 language , and we should push to have it in Numista.
The point of Xavier is, think global, act local. We have one common database and adaptation by countries.
I can tell you far sur that forcing Spanish speakers to use an English side will result in a conversion rate of 5 up to 15% just because in South America by example you don’t need English in your daily day.
Do you think Facebook would have conquered so many user just by having an interface in English only?
For the choice of Spanish I just can agree, because even if chinese will be a better choice on numbers, on paper it’s only 1 country. So by opening Spanish we are now covering almost all America. I would go next to German due to the active community or may Portuguese if it was my choice.
By the way, I don't know what happens when one adds a contribution using English: who/when will take care of providing the French/Spanish version? Or the other ways around, for that matter?
Indonomini:
Be practical and just answer the posted questions, please?
He notado que el sitio en español en numista está prácticamente sin uso. ¿Podría ser eso cierto?
How many days is activated the Spanish site? – 7
How many days is activated the English site? – In 2007, 25 March, was suscribed the fist user. Are 5695 days
How many Spanish speakers collector know they can use a Spanish forum? – A big “?”
It's not about whether the forum is used a little or much. There are collectors who do not speak English or French and thus they can communicate with each other inside Numista in Spanish, and they can use and navigate on Numista in Spanish.
Wanted & swap list (euro coins & world coins, exonumia and banknotes circulated) https://goo.gl/AQjfKp - I have euro & world CC coins for swap.
I didnt know numista has a spanish language option now, this is wonderful, spanish is one of the most speak languages in the world, i didnt notice that option but its make me happy we could include more people in our community, hope one day could have a portuguese option too, thank you developers for this, im sure this will help a lot of users
is there a statistic on the number os Numista members separated by country?
this would help to define wich languages would be more useful in the site languages options
Here are the percentage of visits per country:
France 17.2%
United States 16.4%
United Kingdom 6.1%
India 5.7%
Canada 4.0%
Philippines 3.3%
Australia 2.9%
Germany 2.7%
Belgium 2.5%
Spain 2.2%
Italy 1.9%
Romania 1.7%
Netherlands 1.5%
Brazil 1.4%
Poland 1.3%
Czechia 1.1%
Hungary 1.0%
Greece 1.0%
South Africa 1.0%
Other countries are below 1%.
And the percentage of visits per browser language:
English 48.8%
French 21.0%
Spanish 4.0%
German 2.7%
Portuguese 2.1%
Russian 2.0%
Italian 1.9%
Dutch 1.8%
Polish 1.4%
Romanian 1.3%
Hungarian 1.0%
Czech 1.0%
Chinese 1.0%
Other languages are below 1%.
As you see, current visitors are actually mainly from countries where people can speak a language already offered by Numista, so it's only partially relevant to use these data to determine which language could be useful to be added.
For example, the reason we see very few Japanese people on Numista is probably not their lack of interest in numismatics, but rather the fact that Numista is not available in Japanese, which creates a language barrier.
You have also to consider that many people knows also languages different from their mother-language. So the high number of users of English is due to this reason.
Concerning the number of collectors on the web (and these are a subset of all the collectors) I know the existence of many sites/community/Facebook groups based on English.
One of the angle can be the numismatic literature.
Based on language and country of publication, it can give you an idea of where you'll find an active community of collector or not. Because you will publish only if there is a market for your book …
Mes statistiques avaient pour unique source la liste complète des membres de Numista Lorsque qu'elles faisaient déceler des incohérences celles-ci étaient aussitôt signalées Je n'ai pas accès à d'autres communauté pour vous renseigner
Thank you Xavier for hearing the opinions and acting according to what you find better for the site.
About use of different languages, I am sure will expand the use of Numista, and of course, choosing the most used world wide is the obvious option. Yes, I know probably the most used language is Chinese, and also, and growing fast is Hindi. But like many other languajes they have the handicap of the use of a different alphabet, so, is logical to focus on the use of languages using the Latin script. (Not that I think Latin script is better or worse, it's just different and is what most of us is used to see, and what, out of languajes, can understand).
Said that, my experience is, when talking to coins/notes collectors, I use to ask them if they know Numista; like 75% know the site; when asked if they use the site (just as source of information, or as member), many mention the language barrier; in my country foreign languages are not too much used, I guess not over 50% can read other languages.
The next question is why they do or don't use Numista; most of users can read English or French, but I found nearly all non-users is cause of only use Spanish, therefore they use other sites. To the people who don't use Numista but can read English/French, I use to ask if they would switch to Numista if it had a Spanish version, and found the majority would use Numista Spanish version instead of others. So, my guess, at least in my country is that the Spanish side of Numista will allow increase of use/members (we are so few people here, that would not be noticed, but if it is simmilar in other Spanish-talking countries, then yes, it will move the dial. I think this will happen when pages have a significant contents of Spanish text.
Just 10 options: you understand binary, or you don't.
Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
