Numismatics and Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDC)

Have any of you wondered what will happen to numismatics in the coming 2-3 years when governments will implement CBDCs, which is essentially digital crypto money that will destroy cash as a currency?

To those thinking that this is decades away, here are a list of countries that have already announced CBDC implementation in the coming months/ years: 

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/cbdctracker/

I personally believe the number of new numismats will fall sharply, because most of us came into contact with coins via collecting old pennies or circulating commemoratives. This might in turn will drive down the price of coins due to a shortage of new demand. 

We have already seen a drive towards a cashless society in Germany and Scandinavian countries due to the COVID pandemic- people are afraid of cash because of germs, which I find ludicrous. 

Anyway what are your thoughts?

Tom Wolf

Have any of you wondered what will happen to numismatics in the coming 2-3 years when governments will implement CBDCs, which is essentially digital crypto money that will destroy cash as a currency?

 

To those thinking that this is decades away, here are a list of countries that have already announced CBDC implementation in the coming months/ years: 

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/cbdctracker/

 

I personally believe the number of new numismats will fall sharply, because most of us came into contact with coins via collecting old pennies or circulating commemoratives. This might in turn will drive down the price of coins due to a shortage of new demand. 

We have already seen a drive towards a cashless society in Germany and Scandinavian countries due to the COVID pandemic- people are afraid of cash because of germs, which I find ludicrous. 

 

Anyway what are your thoughts?

My option to pay using cash has rapidly dwindled in my city & surrounding areas.  After Covid hit, it became next to impossible to pay with cash.  Many cashiers gave me a dirty look & some even lectured me how using cash was unhealthy. Since everything has cooled down/lockdowns lifted, etc (& the Better Than Cash Alliance claims that cash was a vector of covid were scientifically dismissed) it is far more difficult to pay with cash. Another victory chalked up for the BTCA!  Countless cashiers have since been laid off (or let go) & many retailers installed self-serve check-outs.  (It's no longer the big box stores like Walmart but little charity stores like Value Village!)  

I posted a thread on CCF regarding this phenomenon.  Despite all this, most people I talked to still seemed in favour of swiping over fumbling with cash.  I can walk them through how they will lose their privacy but most people seem to believe my concerns are a gross over-reaction to the inevitable. When I talk to collectors most think that their collections will become more valuable.

I have found the Better Than Cash Alliance far reaching “war against cash” so complete & successful very alarming since I'm literally surrounded by Canadians who appear ready to bring it (a cashless society) on.  I find it difficult to believe that eliminating cash will contribute to the hobby! Like you, I think it could have a devastating effect (quite the opposite as people perceive cash as irrelevant). 

As a collector of paper money & then polymer, I also keep loose tabs on how many new prefixes are issued by denomination in Canada. We have seen a trickle of new denominations released for our new $10 polymer which was introduced 4 years ago. Our newly designed $5 was supposed to be released last year (2021) but we've heard no news still! This clearly indicates a far less demand on cash.

I also noticed that a few forums (& discussion boards) have dried up so posed this question (re: fate of Collector forums) in July.

Everytime I hear someone say crypto currency will replace real money all I can think of is -50% YTD

And then they say China is controlling its citizens! 

Cashless means TOTAL control - not just what you spend but watching your every move, denying you services if the big brother deems you unworthy, threatening or in any way conflicting the ruling agenda! GLOBALY! 

If you think this is democracy, say baaaaa and follow the herd! 

What happens if a hacker group breaches the central bank and holds all the money hostage? Or a country decides to destroy all the satellites in space, what will happen to all things digital? 
 

I like things to an extent that don’t use cash such a debit cards but that stops there. If I ever become leader (dictator😉) of a country I would encourage people to use cash because from what I’ve learnt in business it’s a very good budgeting tool and I’ll make it possible to mint silver and gold coins for circulation again.

And of course price new mint products at realistic prices.

Worldwide collection

What happens if a hacker group breaches the central bank and holds all the money hostage? Or a country decides to destroy all the satellites in space, what will happen to all things digital? 
 

I like things to an extent that don’t use cash such a debit cards but that stops there. If I ever become leader (dictator😉) of a country I would encourage people to use cash because from what I’ve learnt in business it’s a very good budgeting tool and I’ll make it possible to mint silver and gold coins for circulation again.

 

And of course price new mint products at realistic prices.

Those advocating a cashless society use arguments like- “99% of money laundering is done through cash”, or “cash is used to buy drugs and weapons"… yet they don't want to underline how minuscule the percentage of “black money” truly is. 

Most money laundering is done through a plethora of banks and crypto accounts, and don't get me started on how digital money is used to buy guns- every single one of us pays for our government's war chest through theft.. *cough* I meant taxation. 

As everyone pointed out above, the easiest way to stop us “plebs” from buying gold and silver is to just make sure that untraceable money (a.k.a cash), is banned. Then governments will enforce digitally tracked “tokens”, which you won't be able to use for certain products like precious metals. 

Jamie Dimon and Larry Fink will be laughing in their ivory towers…

userchap

Everytime I hear someone say crypto currency will replace real money all I can think of is -50% YTD

I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean that only 50% of commerce is crypto?

Just to be clear (& 1 of the primary reasons that the Better than Cash Alliance is so way out in left field/full of BS baloney), only about 15-20% of commerce uses cash depending on where one lives. The lion's share of global commerce is digital already.  And I have no real axe to grind with that so long as the opportunity to use cash remains.  I do like the option to pay with cc when I have no cash (even though I know its probably not a good idea to give in especially here in Canada). This tiny percentage of cash use is definitely shrinking since the BTCA have so successfully converted gullible masses into using credit, apple pay & all the other types of non-cash payment methods. It is so pervasive in Canada (where no cash payment options remain in several retail outlets) & converting at an alarming rate. And as I wrote earlier, many Canadians I poll say, “bring it on.” 

The BTCA still successfully spread propaganda like getting a credit card will help poor women from India lead more independent lives with a bank account, credit rating (blah, blah, blah ad nauseum).  The reality is that people are sinking into debt at an alarming rate. The other plus to cash use is, of course, you cannot spend what you don't have: it helps with money management/discipline in a society which currently preaches YOLO (you only live once). Unfortunately, there's no lobby group championing cash.

CBDC just allows for us to Bank directly with a Central Bank instead of the private banks you have now. It means you will have a account with the Central Bank instead of a private bank. Currently you own “digital currency” in your Banks and the Banks have deposits with the Central Banks. There are concerns of course with privacy and all, but it's not Crypto.

simranjits

CBDC just allows for us to Bank directly with a Central Bank instead of the private banks you have now. It means you will have a account with the Central Bank instead of a private bank. Currently you own “digital currency” in your Banks and the Banks have deposits with the Central Banks. There are concerns of course with privacy and all, but it's not Crypto.

You don't own the “digital currency” in your bank. You loaned that money to the bank through your “deposit” (it's a mischaracterized term) and the bank “promises to pay” your “deposit” via new borrowers. 

And if you think that this is just economic semantics between “promissory note” and “deposit”, you must research the Cypriot bail-ins in 2013… if your current bank goes bust, the terms of conditions stipulate that after a certain federally insured amount, you will be paid back your deposit via bank shares (that are probably worthless if this bank has failed). 

Sorry for this tangent, but so many people do not truly understand what is money. I recommend you to watch this video on Odyssey that explains debt-based money better: https://odysee.com/@ApocalypseChow:0/Money-as-Debt:a

It really depends what you mean by “own”. Anyways, I'm just pointing out the difference between CBDC and what we have now.

I really hope that all these leftist adventures with the introduction of digital currencies will completely fail. Not only because their introduction will mean total state control over all purchases, but also because without cash, it can happen to numismatics about the same as happened to philately after the appearance of e-mail. Numerous "collector's editions" and NCLT will remain, but the interest in them will fall; old coins will also become of interest to a smaller number of people, because they will no longer see their modern counterparts in everyday currency circulation.

ciscoins

I really hope that all these leftist adventures with the introduction of digital currencies will completely fail. Not only because their introduction will mean total state control over all purchases, but also because without cash, it can happen to numismatics about the same as happened to philately after the appearance of e-mail. Numerous "collector's editions" and NCLT will remain, but the interest in them will fall; old coins will also become of interest to a smaller number of people, because they will no longer see their modern counterparts in everyday currency circulation.

@ciscoins

I'm not sure you have to worry so much since Mexico ranks as the 11th country most reliant on cash.  That's good news for you & the hobby in your neck of the woods.  I agree that if cash perishes it is more likely that the hobby will collapse (at least eventually).  I still find it hard to believe how cavalier people are with their sense of privacy.

If you're curious where I got that figure of Mexico being #11, check out this link to “The Countries Most Reliant on Cash." It is a fascinating study on nations nearing cashless or the opposite written by Merchant Machine (which a platform for all the usual culprits- Paypal, Visa, Mastercard & the BTCA gang).  It's a very interesting read even though I'm not sure why they included HK & Singapore in their list of 10 top most cashless European countries.  It completely omits North/South America so perhaps another study will come out regarding those regions.  The UK stats are fairly alarming for me since I know Canada often attempts to model what is done there (& we have had a reduction of the # of ATM's like the UK).  

If I may contribute an unsolicited American perspective, I've noticed people becoming very irritated when I use cash. When I get to the checkout and hand them cash, they give me this look of “come on man, just swipe the card”.

That being said, I doubt that an American CBDC will see widespread use in the US. Between the power of the commercial banks and our libertarian streak, most people will be distrustful or not see the point.