Limerick Soviet, April 1919

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This message aims at: requesting the creation or the modification of an issuer in the catalogue

Status: Rejected
Upvotes: 2
Downvotes: 0

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The full story of these notes can be found here:

https://www.irishpapermoney.com/limerick-soviet-notes-1919.html

Rather than include these notes in the main Ireland section, since they only circulated within Limerick, could we please create a new issuer called “Limerick Soviet” within Ireland? I would not envisage the 2019 vouchers discussed here from being included in this section.

Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.

Agree, with one change, the issuing entity was “The Limerick Trades and Labour Council”.

So we'd have the issuing authority as “Limerick Soviet” and the issuing bank as “Limerick Trades and Labour Council”? I know it's not a bank but that's what the field is called. I'm still not sure what the purpose of the issuing entity field is.

Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.

It was labeled ‘Limerick Soviet’ by the media at the time. As such, the term Limerick Soviet is a colloquialism. However, it is what collectors call the notes, so needs to be Prominent.

 

“The Limerick Trades and Labour Council” is the issuing authority or issuing entity, as printed on the notes. It wasn’t a bank. I would suggest the entity field.

 

Tricky to fit it into the menus so that it appears clearly. 
Using the available menus, I would suggest the following:

 

Title: ‘Limerick Soviet 1 Shilling’
(This gets Limerick Soviet in a prominent position)
Issuing Authority: Ireland
Ruling Authority: George V
Issuing Bank: stays blank.
Issuing Entity: Limerick Trades and Labour Council
Currency: Pound 
Type: Local Banknote

Not sure that would work. If we give it the issuing authority of Ireland, it will appear alongside all the other Irish issues, not in a separate section for Limerick. If “Limerick Soviet” is just a nickname, then the following might be best:

 

Title: 1 Shilling (Limerick Soviet)
Issuing Authority: Limerick
Ruling Authority: George V
Issuing Bank: stays blank.
Issuing Entity: Limerick Trades and Labour Council
Currency: Pound 
Type: Local Banknote

 

We have plenty of non-banks listed as "issuing bank" (not least the Irish Currency Commission) but if that's what the issuing entity field is for then so be it.

Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.

Where would they appear in relation to the other Irish banknotes if ‘Issuing Authority: Limerick’ were used?

You can see how they would appear if you look at Israel. In the main index there are

Israel

   British Palestine

   Israel

Clicking on the first “Israel” gives both British Palestine and Israel, clicking on the second “Israel” gives just Israel. We would have

Ireland

   Ireland

   Limerick

and these would work in the same way.

Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.

Looks good. That's what I thought it would be, not having done it, I wasn't sure!

 

‘Limerick’ should appear with the same Irish flag as Ireland.

Hibernia

Looks good. That's what I thought it would be, not having done it, I wasn't sure!

 

‘Limerick’ should appear with the same Irish flag as Ireland.

 

Shouldn't the flag of County Limerick be the flag used for the Limerick Soviet notes?

 

Aidan.

There was no ’Limerick strike’ flag.

 

Theirs was a strike for the right of workers to go to work free from interference.

 

The strike organisers were clear in that they were not being political. They were not attempting a revolution of their own, and were supportive of the Sinn Fein movement at the time. Thus, they fall under the Irish Flag for the purposes of a numista listing.
 

Hibernia

There was no ’Limerick strike’ flag.

 

Theirs was a strike for the right of workers to go to work free from interference.

 

The strike organisers were clear in that they were not being political. They were not attempting a revolution of their own, and were supportive of the Sinn Fein movement at the time. Thus, they fall under the Irish Flag for the purposes of a numista listing.
 

 

The Irish Tricolour wasn't even the official flag of Ireland in 1919.

 

Aidan.

It is used in numista to identify Ireland, coins and banknotes, so its use for Limerick Soviet notes here would also be logical.

Hibernia

It is used in numista to identify Ireland, coins and banknotes, so its use for Limerick Soviet notes here would also be logical.

 

Shouldn't a plain red rectangle be used?

 

I know that Communist-inspired states - especially those with ‘Soviet’ in their names, often used a red flag to symbolise their ideology.

 

Aidan.

The strikers were not communists, and they were not attempting to start a revolution.

Status changed to Rejected (Jarcek, 22 Jul 2022, 13:26)

Hello,

 

we discussed this and it should belong to Irish exonumia, with properly filled Issuing entity field as it was a private issue.

 

Best regards,

Jarek

Catalogue administrator

Exonumia sounds right for them.

Jarcek

Hello,

 

we discussed this and it should belong to Irish exonumia, with properly filled Issuing entity field as it was a private issue.

 

Best regards,

Jarek

 

 

Jarek,

  The 1919 Limerick Soviet notes actually functioned more like Notgeld.

 

Putting them under ‘Exonumia’ is totally wrong.

 

Aidan.

Yes, private issue notgeld. Such issues are already in exonumia, where they will probably have their own section.

Catalogue administrator

BC has a good point there. However, strictly speaking the Limerick notes may have been different to Notgeld in that they were a private note issue produced by an organisation (the strike committee) for a specific purpose, would have been issued to the strikers essentially as strike pay, and were not valid outside of a specific group of businesses. 

 

@Jarcek
Which section in Exonumia are you intending to put these notes?
Having looked at Exonumia, I do not see them fitting under Paper Vouchers, as they were not vouchers; and they do not fit into any of the categories currently listed under Paper Exonumia.

There will be overhaul of those sections. :) No need or desire to move anything now.

Catalogue administrator

Sounds good.

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