Belgium 5 centimes

Hi

Why is the Belgium 5 centimes from the anniversary of king Leopol I in the tokens list -
it was a normal circulating coin in the year 1856-1860 and not a token -
the same as a normal 5 centimes from the 1830's till 1860's.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36681.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36704.html

Can someone remove the coin to the list of Belgium coins

Thanks  

Hello,
Referring to La revue numismatique belge, see page 89, that token was made for the celebration of the 25th anniversary of reign of the King. It circulated unofficialy as coin because it was made with same raw material as the one of the 5Ct (sorry I don't remember the English name of "flan").
There was a discussion on the French forum about this topic: see here.
Friendly regards,
J.

Thanks and yes
but they circulated as 5 centimes and according to many catalog's (Belgium catalog and world catalog) it is listed as an unofficial coin.

the same as the 10 centimes, 5 franc and the 100 franc from the marriage of Leopold in 1853

and also the 10 centimes, 5 francs and the 100 francs from 50 years Belgium as these coins are in the same category   

these coins are in the list of Belgium coins exept for the 5 centimes

so my opinion is that the 5 centimes, 2 franc and 40 franc from the 25th anniversary of Leopold I  are unofficial coins (but coins) and so they must also be in the Belgium list and not in the token list.

Quote: belgicumHi

Why is the Belgium 5 centimes from the anniversary of king Leopol I in the tokens list -
it was a normal circulating coin in the year 1856-1860 and not a token -
the same as a normal 5 centimes from the 1830's till 1860's.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36681.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36704.html

Can someone remove the coin to the list of Belgium coins

Thanks  

Hi, the Numista coin pages that you refer to above I have found in Krause Unusual World Coins 4th Edition (2005) under "Belgium - Kingdom Medallic Coinage":

X# M4  5 CENTIMES
Copper Subject: 25th Anniversary of Independence
Rev: French legend Rev. Legend: ...DE
L'INAUGURATION DU ROI Note: Prev. KM#M1.
Date  Mintage    F       VF     XF     Unc
1856  214,000 15.00 25.00 50.00 75.00

X# M5  5 CENTIMES
Copper Rev: Flemish legend Rev. Legend: ... VAN
S'KONINGS Note: Prev. KM#M2.
Date  Mintage    F     VF   XF  Unc
1856   3,000   80.00 240  450   650

There are also two Bronze issues listed, with the same details, as X#M4a and X#M5a, but since they all have X# numbers in Krause then I believe they should be kept in the Token section, in order that we can retain some kind of consistency here on the Numista database.

OK - thanks for the reply and your opinion

but can they maybe make a separate section within the Belgium coin list for the medallic (unofficial coins) with all the X# numbers
                                    X#1-10 centimes 1853 marriage
                                    X#2- 5 franc 1853 marriage
                                    X#3- 100 franc 1853 marriage
                                    X#4- 5 centimes 1856 anniversary (French)
                                    X#4a- 5 centimes 1856 anniversary (French) bronze
                                    X#5- 5 centimes 1856 anniversary (Dutch)
                                    X#5a- 5 centimes 1856 anniversary (Dutch) bronze
                                    X#6- 2 franc 1856 anniversary (French)
                                    X#7- 2 franc 1856 anniversary (Dutch)
                                    X#8- 5 franc 1880 50 year Belgium (silver)
                                    X#8a- 5 franc 1880 50 year Belgium (copper)
                                    X#8b- 5 franc 1880 50 year Belgium (gold)
                                    X#9- 40 franc anniversary

these coins are all from the same category but you can't have 1 part in tokens and 1 part in the coin list

and there are also token coins and not-geld from Belgium that are in the list of normal Belgium coins and not in the token list.

I should imagine that when the token section has its overhaul, it'll look right.

Quote: belgicumOK - thanks for the reply and your opinion

but can they maybe make a separate section within the Belgium coin list for the medallic (unofficial coins) with all the X# numbers
                                    X#1-10 centimes 1853 marriage
                                    X#2- 5 franc 1853 marriage
                                    X#3- 100 franc 1853 marriage
                                    X#4- 5 centimes 1856 anniversary (French)
                                    X#4a- 5 centimes 1856 anniversary (French) bronze
                                    X#5- 5 centimes 1856 anniversary (Dutch)
                                    X#5a- 5 centimes 1856 anniversary (Dutch) bronze
                                    X#6- 2 franc 1856 anniversary (French)
                                    X#7- 2 franc 1856 anniversary (Dutch)
                                    X#8- 5 franc 1880 50 year Belgium (silver)
                                    X#8a- 5 franc 1880 50 year Belgium (copper)
                                    X#8b- 5 franc 1880 50 year Belgium (gold)
                                    X#9- 40 franc anniversary

these coins are all from the same category but you can't have 1 part in tokens and 1 part in the coin list

and there are also token coins and not-geld from Belgium that are in the list of normal Belgium coins and not in the token list.

Hello Belgicum,

I agree with you! It was also part of the discussion in the French forum (I hope you understand a bit French. Otherwise Google Translate can help).

Quote: kiboloEn résumé:
Devrait être déplacées, les pièces

Vers jeton - médailles officielles
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36681.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36704.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces27256.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces34842.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces33577.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces33576.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces30255.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces27255.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces27258.html

Les fiches qui manquent, je peux les créer si vous le désirez, mais uniquement quand on se sera mis d'accord sur la structure.


Vers Monnaie de nécessité
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces23843.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces20466.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36134.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36163.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces35898.html



Vers jeton non officiel
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces19680.html
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces36162.html
Désolé, mais ces deux pièces sont l'émanation d'une coopérative créée en 1881 "SM Vooruitnr 1".
Cette coopérative a émis des cartes pour le pain, le charbon, des médailles, etc. y compris les deux jetons repris ici.
Cela a été émis entre 1920 et 1930, donc après la guerre et pas dans le cadre d'une monnaie de nécessité.
Pour info, ci-après des images d'un jeton de pain.  L'appellation "Vooruit" est typique de la ville de Gand.
Dans d'autres villes flamandes, on utilisait d'autres slogans.  (Vooruit = En avant!)



https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces29293.html
Cette pièce provient sans doute d'une émission privée.  Elle est peut-être en or et argent mais je demande à voir une photo de la pièce, pas une image.  (j'en ai déjà vu des pièces magnifiques fabriquées en Chine et qui n'ont d'or et d'argent que le nom)

https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces35954.html
Jeton, non circulant et pour cause, l'euro n'existait pas officiellement en 1996.

Que les belges s'expriment maintenant !

Cordialement,

Marc

As you can see all those commemorative tokens should be moved from the coin catalog. But as bam777 says: let's wait for the overhaul of the token section.
In a short future (on a rainy holiday week) I will ask for a move of all those tokens in the right section.

Have a nice evening,
J.

They are technically tokens and belong in the tokens section.

Just because they were used, doesn't mean they aren't tokens.

Quote: SmartOneKgThey are technically tokens and belong in the tokens section.

Just because they were used, doesn't mean they aren't tokens.

hi i have to disagree
these aren't coin or tokens these medals are modules of coins some kinda hybrid between coins and tokens
and they have the same value as the currency of which they are the moduleand

Here's the thing.

The World Coins catalogue lists them in the official medals, tokens, and fantasy issues section. That's why they should be in the Tokens section, not to mention coins with an X#.