Jim MacKenzie <jmackenzie3@shaw.ca>
To:Ole Sjoelund
Sun, Feb 27 at 9:13 PM
Hi Ole!
Those particular photos came from some random E-Bay listing many years ago.
While I would rather see the graphic I made linked to, I understand your desire to keep your format consistent. Since Numista is an education only web site I don't have a problem with your use.
A lot of the photos I use in my variety guides come from PCGS or Heritage Auctions, and the agreement I have with them is to never use their images to generate any form of profit. We are allowed to use them for educational purposes only. I know for sure that some of my images have been used without permission, but the same people could have looked the coins up on Heritage or PCGS and taken them from their site...
Did you just find the photos themselves, or did you extract them from this graphic?: http://www.saskatooncoinclub.ca/articles/04c_5_cent_varieties.html#1990
Jim MacKenzie
Saskatoon Coin Club
On 2022-02-27 9:51 a.m., Ole Sjoelund wrote:
HI,
I'm setting up a lot of documentations of varieties of coins. They all are used in en.numista.com. Today I saw a conversation about the 5 Canadian 5 cents from 1990 talking about the "bare" bellied variant. Unfortunately the coin in my collection is with the normal belly, so I had to use the internet as a souce and came upon your site!
Please see attached how I show the found source of the images and decide if you could allow me to use your site for further documentations using the same pattern?
I show also how other sites have allowed me the use of their images and findings.
In the hope of receiving a positive answer.
Ole Sjoelund
A Dane in Paris
and then some from the UK (2x), USA
Books:
2022 Charlton Canadian Coins, Volume One 75th Edition at 30,95$ on Amazon
Charlton Gov't Paper Money 2022 (33rd Edition) at 44,95$ on Amazon
Price Guide for Canadian Coins Professional Edition by Michael K. Blais (9th Edition)
Part I - Illustrated Reference Guide for 5 Cents Coins of Canada - 3rd Edition (1858-1936)
Part II - Illustrated Reference Guide for 5 Cents Coins of Canada - 1st Edition (1937-1952)
Part III - Illustrated Reference Guide for 5 Cents Coins of Canada - 1st Edition (1953-1964)
Coins of Canada 39th Edition 2021 by J.A. Haxby R.C. Willey
Guide For Grading Coins of Canada Collectors Reference 1st Ed. By A.Langlois (in French or English)
Québécois
Ancienement, référent du Canada / FYI former referee for Canada
Quote: "Sjoelund"From whom can we (numista) use their images and findings ?
Probably none. Those books are up for sale. Online ressource are free but copyrights are in effect (probably).
With the other references, you will be able to compare the Saskatoon Coin Club findings with the others and see if their infos are up to date, complete and reliable.
Regards,
Québécois
Ancienement, référent du Canada / FYI former referee for Canada
Oh, you say, that I need to buy the books to verify my source,from whom I managed to get the allowance to use their findings?
I'm sorry that's not in my investment plans...... so I'll continue to make my documentations, and then you can publicly contest them if need be. I don't mind, since I only want the numista members to have access to all the facts about a year variety.
Quote: "Sjoelund"Oh, you say, that I need to buy the books to verify my source,from whom I managed to get the allowance to use their findings?
I'm sorry that's not in my investment plans...... so I'll continue to make my documentations, and then you can publicly contest them if need be. I don't mind, since I only want the numista members to have access to all the facts about a year variety.
You do what ever you wish.
But facts based on only one source are usually not reliable. I mentionned a couple of free online references to help you verify the infos from your single source. If you prefer to cut and paste the work of another without verifing, it's your businness.
For the books, I own most of them, as I wrote you in another post, I can scans some pages for you for the Victoria 1 and 5 cents. But remember those are protected copyrights books and you are not allowed to use their pictures without their permission.
Québécois
Ancienement, référent du Canada / FYI former referee for Canada
I would agree with the referee's opinion here: a check of various references before doing documentation or modification request is not unreasonable.
Yes it is referees' business to check requests but request when submitted require to provide valid sources too..that referee can check.
On the pictures:
From the start of the message: "Those particular photos came from some random E-Bay listing many years ago."
Then, these are not his pictures and he does not own rights to use them. And as you know, ebay is not an approved source of pictures on Numista.
On the information itself:
Picture usage rights is different from reporting information.
If the source comes from one picture randomly taken from an ebay listing many years ago with no track record or rights to use the picture...unfortunately it is not necessarily reliable.
If the variant is referenced in other sources, even if we don't have a picture, the information might be worth to be mentioned in a different way than a graphic one (until a picture that can be used is found).
Side note: ANPB website works but is troublesome on some browsers and with ad blocking add-ons. You may try on Firefox or Opera, it usually works better for their website.
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Quote: "pejounet"
Side note: ANPB website works but is troublesome on some browsers and with ad blocking add-ons. You may try on Firefox or Opera, it usually works better for their website.
I do use firefox with an add blocker, which didn't even ask if I would allow it to be overruled!
Anyway, what you are saying is that the source I use is not not good (saskatoon ....) , so it can ONLY be used if other sources confirm the variety? If confirmed, the Sasketoon images can not be used, because we're not sure, who made them?
In the end we're then only allowed to change the year lines like this "wide and narrow date varietie exist" because we don't need any permission to use "common knowledge", but we can not show it in any graphic way. Have I understood it correctly?
Quote: "pejounet"
Side note: ANPB website works but is troublesome on some browsers and with ad blocking add-ons. You may try on Firefox or Opera, it usually works better for their website.
I do use firefox with an add blocker, which didn't even ask if I would allow it to be overruled!
Anyway, what you are saying is that the source I use is not not good (saskatoon ....) , so it can ONLY be used if other sources confirm the variety? If confirmed, the Sasketoon images can not be used, because we're not sure, who made them?
In the end we're then only allowed to change the year lines like this "wide and narrow date varietie exist" because we don't need any permission to use "common knowledge", but we can not show it in any graphic way. Have I understood it correctly?
I'm not saying Saskatoon Coin Club is not good, I don't know him so cannot judge.
I'm just saying that he mentions himself the pictures were taken randomly from an ebay listing years ago. If there is no authorization from original listing owner, we cannot use pictures for Numista.
If a member has this coin in his collection and agrees for you to use his own pictures, I see no image copyright problem here.
Common knowledge is not an evidence that something is true (doesn't mean it's false either), that's why checking various references can help document the findings: if this variety is listed in references about Canadian coinage, yes it can make sense to add a comment.
If this variant was discovered many years ago, my guess is that there are chances to find it listed in other Canadian coinage references/sources.
Another source you may want to check for Canadian coinage variants: coinsandcanada.com. We cannot use their pictures but you can find an extensive list of variants on the site (here for the coin of current thread).
APNB website is a known problem (at least to me), I cannot act on that. I can only mention the workaround that works on my side (i.e. using a different browser or check add-ons settings).
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Status changed to Rejected(Jarcek, 14 Apr 2022, 23:14)
