What German state is it? Is it Waldek? But I can't find 1783 P.S. anywhere. Obverse - monogram only (without legend): Slg. Hennig 194, Slg. Kayser 268, Weingärtner 778 - only 1773 PS, 1781 PS, 1797 PS, 1799 PS.
(https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces94098.html)
What do you think about it? Fake, mistake, other German land under Friedrich, or may be we must add 1783 year in the Numista list?
Krause lists it under Waldeck-Pyrmont as KM#20a but I am not sure why a. There should be a legend FURSTL: WALDECK: L: MUNZ but I am not sure if this would be under the F.
Not KM#20a, this coin as I understand is KM#20 (without legend around monogram of Fridrich), but I can't find anywhere 1783.
In KM#20a I see 1783, but this type has legend. I don't understand. Maybe somebody has seen that unusual type?
We can also consider the possibility that the legend around the monogram is there (KM#20a), but it is too worn to be visible. I don' think this is the case, because we should be able to see something near the tip of the F around 1:00. But there might be some worn lettering barely visible around 10:00-11:00.
I like the possibility that the coin is a counterfeit. The lettering on the denomination side is more crude than on any other examples of either type I can find. The proportions of the monogram are also different. I know there is always the question of why someone would counterfeit a coin of such low value, but we can find low denomination counterfeits everywhere.
"...We can also consider the possibility that the legend around the monogram is there (KM#20a), but it is too worn to be visible. I don' think this is the case, because we should be able to see something near the tip of the F around 1:00. But there might be some worn lettering barely visible around 10:00-11:00..."
No, they are different types. Sorry
"... I know there is always the question of why someone would counterfeit a coin of such low value..."
And what about modern copy? For example, 10$1 pfennig. But in this case we can find some coins like this. It's first time.
Not a fake, perfectly fine coin.
just plenty of die variants existing.
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Status changed to Solved(Walter_Scott, 10 Jul 2021, 18:29)
One more observation with the relevant photos (and I am now convinced of the die variant explanation) ...
I found an image of another 1783 where we can see that the same punch was used for the letter N in Pfenning as for the OPs coin (there is a tiny notch at the base of the diagonal stroke). It is also the only other example of this coin I can find where the rosettes (or stars?) on each side of the I (one) are missing.
But it is on a coin with the legend obverse (KM20a). Does this suggest that the OPs coin is a sort of mule that used the reverse of a die being used to strike 1783 KM20a with an obverse die (from a previous year?) of KM20 ?
Since at least the KM catalog thinks there is no 1783 of the KM20, this could be an explanation for the OPs unusual coin (raising the question of when is something an error versus a variety).
Do any German catalogs show a 1783 with no legend obv?
QuoteSince at least the KM catalog thinks there is no 1783 of the KM20, this could be an explanation for the OPs unusual coin (raising the question of when is something an error versus a variety).
Do any German catalogs show a 1783 with no legend obv?
That's intresting, but I think someone from Waldeck museum can help.
Mayby mintage 1783 was very small and that's why so difficult to find this coin. And Krause just didn't find anywhere this year. For example, stamp was destroyed or cracked in the beging of the year, in January... Instead 10 000 they made 80 only.
