Six pence 1880

Hi there,

I'm not sure if this is an old or new type?

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces13213.html

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces8477.html

I think it's new, but I'm not sure.

The alignment of the headband with the first "R" in "BRITTANIAR" points to 3rd type (new). There are a bunch of other small differences but that one is one of the easier ones (in my opinion).

I've made the pictures this afternoon but apparently I've forgotten to post my answer.
The difference is a new portrait with longer hairwaves, but to be honest the differences are not that big. I think the easiest way to determine the type is the distance between the hair and the last "R" in "BRITTANIAR":



As you can see, yours is indeed the new type, KM# 757:


@seltsamesammler: Good eye, that's indeed another way to determine the type, I didn't even notice it but once you know it you can clearly see the difference.

Thanks Gentlemen,

Please use this, if you agree upon it, for the two

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces13213.html

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces8477.html

articles, so the next person asking the same question will have the documentation in Numista.



Who will make the CR? I none of you, please tell and I'll do it.

Quote: "Sjoelund"​Thanks Gentlemen,
​
​Please use this, if you agree upon it, for the two
​
​https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces13213.html
​
​https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces8477.html
​
​articles, so the next person asking the same question will have the documentation in Numista.
​
​
​
​Who will make the CR? I none of you, please tell and I'll do it.

​Looks great! I'm still cautious about catalog changes so I'll leave the honors to you.

CR issued.

Great documentation again Ole, but if it's not too late I would change one thing: under the right picture I would go for "Hair near by foot of second R" in stead of "Hair near from foot of second R". I don't think "near from" is grammatically correct.

Hi,

sure, you're nearly right, at least more than I, though I just checked with my wife, since I thought "to" would be better, and she confirmed that, so now it looks like this? Can you agree?



Prepositions are difficult in a not native language and even then, but it makes life interesting, doesn't it

Many thanks to you all for your combined contribution, CRs published and links added to each page.

Team work makes the dream work!

So...I'm confused. I agree the obverse appears to be the new 3rd type, but the reverse is like the reverse on the 2nd type. Specifically the spacing between the letters in PENCE is much larger in KM#757. The coin in question has the smaller spacing of KM#751. Or...is that another one of the differences between KM#751.1 and 751.2?

Quote: "Sjoelund"​Prepositions are difficult in a not native language and even then, but it makes life interesting, doesn't it

​I know, English is not my native tongue either.

By the way, you've corrected your documentation and it's perfect now. BUT you did it AFTER you've made the requests. So on both coin pages are now your documentation with the "near from" version.

Quote: "rsirian1"​So...I'm confused. I agree the obverse appears to be the new 3rd type, but the reverse is like the reverse on the 2nd type. Specifically the spacing between the letters in PENCE is much larger in KM#757. The coin in question has the smaller spacing of KM#751. Or...is that another one of the differences between KM#751.1 and 751.2?
​
​

​From what I can gather, the wide-spaced reverse did not come at the same time as the 3rd type bust and was not until 1883/4

I believed Radrick had taken the "new" documentation, see above, but maybe he didn't. Anyway I have made a new CR for both coins.

Take care

Quote: "radrick007"​

Quote: "rsirian1"​So...I'm confused. I agree the obverse appears to be the new 3rd type, but the reverse is like the reverse on the 2nd type. Specifically the spacing between the letters in PENCE is much larger in KM#757. The coin in question has the smaller spacing of KM#751. Or...is that another one of the differences between KM#751.1 and 751.2?
​​
​​

​​From what I can gather, the wide-spaced reverse did not come at the same time as the 3rd type bust and was not until 1883/4

​Unfortunately http://declanmageecoins.co.uk/ does not have those coins in the base any longer, but I'll try to ask him.

Quote: "rsirian1"​So...I'm confused. I agree the obverse appears to be the new 3rd type, but the reverse is like the reverse on the 2nd type. Specifically the spacing between the letters in PENCE is much larger in KM#757. The coin in question has the smaller spacing of KM#751. Or...is that another one of the differences between KM#751.1 and 751.2?

​That confusing is easily fixed, it's a date thing. The coins till 1882 have small spaced lettering on the reverse, from 1883 they have wide spaced lettering, together with a few differently shaped oak leaves:



But talking about confusion, what about this:


Heritage auctions says the left one is KM# 751.2 (https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1880-ms63-pcgs-/a/271609-36065.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515), the right one is KM# 757 (https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1880-ms64-ngc-/a/231625-64227.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515). Heritage auctions even explicitly says "A gorgeous example of this last date for the type before a new bust variety was introduced."
But I don't see any difference whatsoever. Does anyone else?
So I thought since we all make mistakes, Heritage also must have made a mistake and the left one is also KM# 757. But then I stumbled upon this:



Both the same date (https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1879-ms65-ngc-/a/241526-65099.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 and https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1879-au-/a/231917-64304.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515) but the left one has the new bust variety, the right one has the old bust variety.
Now I am confused.

Quote: "Essor Prof"​

Quote: "rsirian1"​So...I'm confused. I agree the obverse appears to be the new 3rd type, but the reverse is like the reverse on the 2nd type. Specifically the spacing between the letters in PENCE is much larger in KM#757. The coin in question has the smaller spacing of KM#751. Or...is that another one of the differences between KM#751.1 and 751.2?
​
​

​​That confusing is easily fixed, it's a date thing. The coins till 1882 have small spaced lettering on the reverse, from 1883 they have wide spaced lettering, together with a few differently shaped oak leaves:
​
​
​
SO THAT'S CLEARED UP

​But talking about confusion, what about this:
​
​
​Heritage auctions says the left one is KM# 751.2 (https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1880-ms63-pcgs-/a/271609-36065.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515), the right one is KM# 757 (https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1880-ms64-ngc-/a/231625-64227.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515). Heritage auctions even explicitly says "A gorgeous example of this last date for the type before a new bust variety was introduced."
​But I don't see any difference whatsoever. Does anyone else?

I SAW THEM YESTERDAY AS WELL, BUT NO CLICK IN MY BRAIN

​So I thought since we all make mistakes, Heritage also must have made a mistake and the left one is also KM# 757. But then I stumbled upon this:
​
​
​
​Both the same date (https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1879-ms65-ngc-/a/241526-65099.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 and https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1879-au-/a/231917-64304.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515) but the left one has the new bust variety, the right one has the old bust variety.
​Now I am confused.

​To your last point I have no explanation, except maybe a counterfeit or two. I don't have an English catalog, so no way to learn more. I'll do some research on internet, that's all.

Quote: "Essor Prof"​

Quote: "rsirian1"​So...I'm confused. I agree the obverse appears to be the new 3rd type, but the reverse is like the reverse on the 2nd type. Specifically the spacing between the letters in PENCE is much larger in KM#757. The coin in question has the smaller spacing of KM#751. Or...is that another one of the differences between KM#751.1 and 751.2?
​
​

​​That confusing is easily fixed, it's a date thing. The coins till 1882 have small spaced lettering on the reverse, from 1883 they have wide spaced lettering, together with a few differently shaped oak leaves:
​
​
​
SO THAT'S CLEARED UP

​But talking about confusion, what about this:
​
​
​Heritage auctions says the left one is KM# 751.2 (https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1880-ms63-pcgs-/a/271609-36065.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515), the right one is KM# 757 (https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1880-ms64-ngc-/a/231625-64227.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515). Heritage auctions even explicitly says "A gorgeous example of this last date for the type before a new bust variety was introduced."
​But I don't see any difference whatsoever. Does anyone else?

I SAW THEM YESTERDAY AS WELL, BUT NO CLICK IN MY BRAIN

​So I thought since we all make mistakes, Heritage also must have made a mistake and the left one is also KM# 757. But then I stumbled upon this:
​
​
​
​Both the same date (https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1879-ms65-ngc-/a/241526-65099.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 and https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1879-au-/a/231917-64304.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515) but the left one has the new bust variety, the right one has the old bust variety.
​Now I am confused.

​To your last point I have no explanation, except maybe a counterfeit or two. I don't have an English catalog, so no way to learn more. I'll do some research on internet, that's all.

Type 1

Type 2

Type 3


For me there is NO difference between type 2 and type 3 in the busts! The six pence is slightly bigger in the type 2, the 2 red boxes are the same size.

Please note that the type 2 is from 1879. I got that information from here:
Coins of the UK - Sixpence
www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk › sixd
Type 1 was used until 1866, then a lower relief
Type 2 was used from 1867 to 1880, during which year there was a slight modification which makes the Queen look a little older.
Type 3 in 1884 the reverse was modified, with a larger SIX PENCE .

So I think SCWC and Numista (Numista a copy of SCWC) both got it wrong, the breaking year was probably 1879, no?

Quote: "Sjoelund"​Type 3 in 1884 the reverse was modified, with a larger SIX PENCE .

That already happened in 1883 as I told in my previous post and you could see there and can see here:
- https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1883-ms63-pcgs-/a/231908-63215.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
- https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1883-ms65-pcgs-/a/271609-36069.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
- https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/world-coins/great-britain-victoria-6-pence-1883-ms63-ngc-/a/241526-65102.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Quote: "Sjoelund"​Type 2 was used from 1867 to 1880, during which year there was a slight modification which makes the Queen look a little older.
​So I think SCWC and Numista (Numista a copy of SCWC) both got it wrong, the breaking year was probably 1879, no?

That would be a good explanation why I've found two different 1879 types, also why I couldn't find a picture of the 1880 with the older version of the bust and also why the so-called two different 1880 types in my previous post look exactly the same. Good thought Ole.
​

Quote: "Sjoelund"​

Quote: "radrick007"​
​

Quote: "rsirian1"​So...I'm confused. I agree the obverse appears to be the new 3rd type, but the reverse is like the reverse on the 2nd type. Specifically the spacing between the letters in PENCE is much larger in KM#757. The coin in question has the smaller spacing of KM#751. Or...is that another one of the differences between KM#751.1 and 751.2?
​​​
​​​

​​​From what I can gather, the wide-spaced reverse did not come at the same time as the 3rd type bust and was not until 1883/4

​​Unfortunately http://declanmageecoins.co.uk/ does not have those coins in the base any longer, but I'll try to ask him.

​I exchanged emails with Declan this morning and the Victorian lower denominations are a work in progress! Tony Clayton's website does mention the larger lettering reverse.