Why is New Foundland a separat Issuere? [solved]

I thought, why is New Foundland a seperat issuere? I think it would make sense to split other provinces up then too? Instead of having those under Canadian Provinces? I at least don't see the difference between New Foundland and the other provinces, beside the late entrance into the Canadian Confederation. Is that the difference..? Then it could be a sub issuere under the Canadian Provinces, instead of issuere under Canada. If that makes sense?

If these below, are moved to their own issueres, then there will still be some under the Canadian Provinces: Trade tokens and so.
Some of them can have the British Monarch(s) as ruling authority, other not.

Canadian Provinces, with own coinage:
New Brunswick
Nova Scotia
Prince Edward Island
Upper Canada
Montreal/Lower Canada
And
Alberta (for Banknotes)

In my collection I put Newfoundland and the Kingdom of Hawaii as separate countries, not under Canada or the United States, as with other former countries like Bohemia.

I agree that the Canadian provinces should be split--I made a request to do so in January of 2020, but that request is still pending.

The list I proposed was similar to your own, which the Canadian provinces referee helped make:

• Alberta
  
• Canada, Colonial (for coins whose exact issuers are uncertain)
  
• Canada, Province of
  
• Lower Canada
  
• Magdalen Islands
  
• New Brunswick
  
• Nova Scotia
  
• Prince Edward Island
  
• Upper Canada
  

Newfoundland should be its own country if you ask me as it did not join Canada until 1949 and it stopped making coins once it joined, but yes, the rest of the provinces should be issuers, just like the pre-Federal US states.

Quote: "Tovarich"​Newfoundland should be its own country if you ask me as it did not join Canada until 1949 and it stopped making coins once it joined, but yes, the rest of the provinces should be issuers, just like the pre-Federal US states.

​
Crucially, I think, Newfoundland issued coins long after Canada had established its common coinage, whereas all other provincial issues were superseded by that common coinage.

That's the justification for Newfoundland's privileged status.

Newfoundland was actually an independent Dominion from 1907 to 1934, then a de-facto British colony until 1949.

Newfoundland's last coins were struck in 1947.

Aidan.

In my collection, if a country has been independent, but a part of one country now, I'll put them under that country: Like German States I'll put them under Germany

I think it's fine giving Newfoundland special status, when they joined the Confederation very late, compared to the other pronices: See link below
If these are split up, then the (modern) flags of the different provinces are in the link too :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_and_territories_of_Canada

So I suggest it could be like this, based on/copied from Sulfur's list:

Canada

• Canada
  
• Canadian Provinces:
  

- Alberta
- Canada, Colonial (for coins whose exact issuers are uncertain)
- Canada, Province of
- Lower Canada
- Magdalen Islands
- New Brunswick
- Nova Scotia
- Prince Edward Island
- Upper Canada

• Newfoundland
  

Does anyone know what is the "final verdict" regarding the status and classification of the Canadian provinces?
As things are at the moment - the issue seems somewhat unresolved...
Currently - the only way to distinguish between coins &tokens from the different provinces is by the currencies types, which paints a misleading picture of a vague "Canadian provinces" entity instead of separate colonies that issued their own coins, and/or relied on commercial and semi-official trade tokens.

I would like a final verdict on this too. There seems to be good support for splitting up the provinces and no good argument for having them all under one umbrella term for the provinces.

I've seen a few issuere be put together and probably a few being split up too in the mean time, while this has been discussed. I know this could of course be due to prioritaisation/long list of "to do", but a yai or nai from a referee who can control this, would be so nice!

I've tried messaging the referee for Canadian Provinces, linking to this discussion as well, to get their opinion.

They were actually British colonies when they had their own coins & currency tokens.

They became provinces after 1 July 1867 when the Dominion of Canada was created.

Aidan.

Quote: "BCNumismatics"​They were actually British colonies when they had their own coins & currency tokens.
​
​They became provinces after 1 July 1867 when the Dominion of Canada was created.
​
​Aidan.

​Actually, that's not right -- which is why Newfoundland should be distinct from the other Canadian provinces. Newfoundland didn't become a province in 1867, it continued as a colony until 1907. Then it became a separate self-governing Dominion, not part of Canada. In 1934 there was a financial crisis and it gave up being self governing, but still wasn't part of Canada. In 1949 it became a province of Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_Newfoundland

Quote: "bjherbison"​

Quote: "BCNumismatics"​They were actually British colonies when they had their own coins & currency tokens.
​​
​​They became provinces after 1 July 1867 when the Dominion of Canada was created.
​​
​​Aidan.

​​Actually, that's not right -- which is why Newfoundland should be distinct from the other Canadian provinces. Newfoundland didn't become a province in 1867, it continued as a colony until 1907. Then it became a separate self-governing Dominion, not part of Canada. In 1934 there was a financial crisis and it gave up being self governing, but still wasn't part of Canada. In 1949 it became a province of Canada.
​
​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_of_Newfoundland

​
I was referring to places like Lower Canada, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, & Upper Canada.

They were British colonies.

Newfoundland is a totally different story.

Newfoundland & New Zealand both became Dominions on 26 September 1907.

Aidan.

I love these tricky issues of numismatic classification!

I will raise this analogy with France and "Feudal" France.
Until very recently, the Duchy of Lorraine was listed separately from all the other issuers in "Feudal France" in Numista. Why? I expect for the same reason as Newfoundland: It was the last major part of France to be fully absorbed into Royal France (1766), and it issued its own coinage until around 1730.

Sometime in the last year, the decision was made to place it in Numista's Feudal France section, which I think is appropriate (and better than Krause's decision).

This sounds the same to me. At some point in the distant past, all these places were separate colonies. Now they are all provinces.

So I agree we should just have Canada and Feudal Canada (oops! I mean Provinces ).

Pushing this up, since it has been a while, since there has been no "final verdict" or reaction from one who can change this, nor the referee from Canadian Provinces :D

Split them first, and then if the new "logic" of numista is followed, ALSO join them under Canada.

Oh my god, what do we do with USSR and Ukrania, today they are split, but up to 1971? The numista logic is not easy to follow?

Congrats on the new definitions! 2 points scored for common sense.

Provinces are now separate and joined under Canada header (Newfoundland too). Credit is due to pejounet, I am just "closing" the thread.